Looks very good to me. /J/ could be a touch wider, and the structure of /M/ makes it appear narrow at the top.

"I've been working on it for so long, I don't see it anymore." Your the designer. If you can't see it anymore, take a break from it. To me it looks OK but not perfect.

@Craig: thanks, I've widened /J/ and altered /M/.

@Philips: exactly, I am taking a break and let YOU be the criticaster ;-) So, what is in your opinion "not perfect", please tell me so I can enhance the font.

New PDF to be posted soon.

It looks really great! What was the inspirations for your font? Somehow it reminds me to art nouveau but transformed in a contemporary way. In my eyes the letters fit really well together - compared with all other letters the capital M looks a bit narrow.

Thanks Roland, you've made my evening!
I've already prepared a small article about this design:

Aubaine - pure wellness for stressed-out typographers­­­

Lots of magazines and companies in the self-proclaimed field of mental and fysical wellness adore Helvetica, especially in light weights. Somehow it seems to be the one and only typeface with the right look and feel, possibly to do with width and roundness, but it lacks openness­­­­. The over-use of Helvetica in wellness magazines and packaging has a great disadvantage - they all look alike. It made me decide it was time for an alternative, a counter-movement if you will.

I'll post another PDF with the altered /M/ soon.

Please check out the 2nd PDF above.

Congrats, Jean Paul. This is an outstanding design. Really beautiful. I cannot wait to see it in bolder weights. Do you plan to build an italic style?

I just think the K may use just one curve leg. Although these curves are the main characteristic of Aubaine, the K seems a bit unstable. I think it would be interesting to see a test with one leg curve and other straight. Or to make straight just the part where upper leg connects with the stem.

Hi Igor!
Thanks for the compliment and yes, I am planning a complete family ranging from ultralight to ultrabold, italics, small caps et cetera. But first I need to get these basics right.
I'll try the alterations on /K/ which you suggest.

I think Igor's right about the /K/ leg. I would also suggest trying a non-descending form of /J/ that is wide like the /U/ (perhaps as an alternate). I think that more expansive form might fit nicely with this design.

On your /G/, the beard/crossbar treatment doesn't seem quite right to me - it gets a little fiddly, loses the open simplicity of the font a bit.

I also wonder if it would be good to lower the middle vertex of /W/ and /w/ just a tiny bit.

Good comments so far. I'm not sure I agree with Craig about the /w/ and /W/. But to see it would be best. And the legs of the /K/ and /k/ are too wavy. Why not just make it similar to the /R/? I like the descending /J/, but wonder how you'd solve a non-descending. And the crossbar on the /G/ doesn't appear wide enough. I also like the previous /M/, but the new /M/ does work.

Thank y'all! I hope to be working on it this coming weekend. I'll soon repost.

As a matter of fact I am going to have some exposure in a Dutch branche magazine by the end of October, in particular about this type design, which I hope will boost sales. I have 54 days left to complete it and put it on MyFonts. Any pointers?

Lowercase p and q - descenders too short (equate optically with g, I would say).

Very nice design, but incorporating alternatives to make it more geometric (I mean glyphs like a single bowl a, single story g, crossbar t, etc.) may make this far more commercial. I find that there are hardly any good geo-sanses apart from the usual suspects.

Right.

I've tried /k/ and /K/ with one straight leg, but it looked awful. It wouldn't fit in the overall design. What I did do, is use the same leg of /R/ on both /k/ and /K/, this does indeed look much better, less unstable.

I've widened both /j/ and /J/, this too is much better and fits better in the design.

I've removed the crossbar on /G/ as I originally designed. It opened up the character.

On /w/ and /W/ I've lowered the middle part just an itsy bitsy bit.

Your final verdicts please!

Ah, thanks Bert, our posts just crossed.

I was in doubt about the descenders, but no-one commented. I'll take another look at them.

Good idea about the alternate glyphs, but I'm not sure I've got enough time :-| Guess I'll put some work into the numerals and ultrablack first and then interpolate the two.

It's interesting how many people here start designing typefaces with an hairline (essentially the outline of a font).
Maybe that's why so many designs end up looking similar?

J-P
Have you tried starting for example from a Regular weight or even a Bold weight where the real character and balance of a typeface evolve and where"inner space" becomes more of an issue? As I look at it now, although pleasant, it looks very similar to several typefaces out there and potentially *more* than similar. Again, it might be because it's only an hairline now. You sure you did enough research?

If it's for practice, it's another story, but if commercial... I'm just pointing out the possibility.

Good luck,

Angus

Hi Angus,
I see your point. This is not the first typeface I've designed (though none released). I *always* start out with the regular weight, except for Aubaine. In an other thread I was advised by Nick Shinn to design both extreme weights first, and interpolate from there. Quite a good tip I think: you'll have to make some design decisions you wouldn't have thought of normally. Interpolation won't just do the trick of course, quite some tweaking will need to be done.
However, I do think this design is dissimilar enough to others, in altralight and will be even more so in heavier weights.

Angus: I disagree from you. Surely, there is such an amount of sans these days that you can hardly achieve a high degree of originality in any new design. But even in this scenario, Aubaine has a distinct skeleton and tends to develop beautifully. I guess it will deserve a future commercial release. Of course, you must know some fonts I'm not aware about. Maybe you can refer to them so it's possible to evaluate how similar the designs are.

Jean Paul
That interpolation from two extreme masters "tip" is well known and been well used since MultipleMasters and since FontLab/Fontographer existed. But I think that's an excellent way of generating all the extra weights out of your design. I'm not sure it's the best way to start *Designing* your typeface though (there might be some exceptions). For example, it could be a good idea to put this outline aside for awhile and start with an heavier weight, or even the other heavy extreme if you wish, and see the possibilities and how it can mature and develop. Maybe a middle weight to bring you further. That way it will be easier for you to later see where the faults are and to tweak accordingly. It shouldn't be the interpolation that leads the design, you know what I mean? In the "old days", the outline/hairline/whatever weights were created much later after it was clear what the design or typeface was, and if it *could* use an hairline anyway. An hairline has become very popular nowadays for headlines, but in most cases it reflects the bare minimum of a typeface (really the skeleton), rather than defining it.

@Freiberger
I wasn't trying to criticize the design here. It's much to early to tell where it's going to, since all I see is (as you call it, and it's a good word-choice) a "skeleton". It really can go many ways and yes be quite pretty, but as I see it now, it looks like I've seen it before and recently in similar ways. Of course I think Jean paul should do his own research, but to me it's somewhere between the old Goudy Sans drawings, to Underware's Sauna, To the new Typejockeys' Aniuk, to Porchez's Parisine Plus, to Jeremy Tankard's drawings.. to...
there's nothing wrong in being inspired by other work, but it's usually in the details and problem-solving where people tend to copy the most.

But again, "originality" isn't the point I'm trying to make here. It's the process of the design and thought of a typeface and it's nature and character, rather than the technic to generate a whole family. It seems many designers rely too much on the software shortcuts and adapting their design process to make the software generation workflow easier, while I would almost say it should be the other way around.

I hope I make sense.

I'd try the lowered W/w vertex lowered less than that - what I was proposing was really just an adjustment to avoid what I saw as an optical illusion of the vertex riding high. In other words, I think it might be best to make it optically even at the midline, which may require it being mathematically just a touch lower than the midline. But maybe I'm off here...

I think that new style of /J/ shows promise, though right now it looks like it's falling rightward.

I'm not sure you're done with the /G/ but I think it's changing in a positive and interesting direction for this font.

That reversal of the /K/k/ leg is better, but I'd argue that those letters still come across too wavy.

@Angus:
I can elaborate, but I won't. I'd like to keep this post *about* the design, not *how* to design. If you'd like to discuss type design theory, please start a new thread!

@Craig:
I see what you mean about /W/w/. But I must say I kinda like it this way!
I'll take another look at /J/ and /K/k/; perhaps un-wave the diagonals (but not straighten them) will do the trick. I've removed the crossbar on /G/ to open it up.

Angus: I understand your point. Anyway, I still don't think features like interpolation and MM produces very relevant effect on conteporary trends of type design. But I'll avoid further comments because this would become off-topic.

Jean Paul: I'm minory here because I prefer the first J style. I agree with Eliason about W and K. Remaining glyphs are very good.

For the moment I've left/K/k/J/W/w/ as they are.

Please check out the 4th PDF above. It shows a few characters in all weights.
I'm not sure about the thick-thin connections in the ultrablack; I feel they're very pronounced but for smaal prints it's very clear.

Your thougts about the design again please!

I'm not sure about the thick-thin connections in the ultrablack; I feel they're very pronounced but for smaal prints it's very clear.

I think the next decision to make is what is the target size for this font. (That will also help decide the best length for the descenders.)

Some new characters in ultralight, medium and black (see 5th PDF above). Not there yet. Love the /b/...

Please check out the 1st lower case black draft in the 6th PDF above.

I see now that the 'tail' of /a/ needs to be shorter and the bowl needs to be higher.
Perhaps /g/ is not black enough? Is /t/ too wide?

All comments appreciated!

Some more adjusting the ultra black weight was certainly neccesary! I find that interpolating is a great help determining the right shapes and stroke weight.
Please see the 7th PDF above.

...and the first rough draft of ultra light italic (8th PDF).

This one is a winner.
I'll try to make time for a full crit.
But what I can say now is that the "g" needs help.

hhp

Gee, thanks Hrant!

Please hold your crit for a day or two if you will, I've been working on it but haven't posted a new PDF yet.

Please check out the 9th PDF above for a closer view.

A slightly more extensive PDF above added.

All comments still highly appreciated!

Another PDF added, all caps.

Jean Paul,
Your Aubaine typeface reminds me of the struggles I went through a few years ago with my own "Now Sans" which is yet to be released. I thought you might benefit from critiques I received here on Typophile 5 years ago:

http://typophile.com/node/16147
http://typophile.com/nowsans
http://typophile.com/nowbold

Yours is looking well on its way, keep up the good work!

ChrisL

Thanks Chris. You're right, I am struggling. I'll make sure to check out those posts. And thanks for the positive payoff!

Any idea when Now Sans is going to be released? It looks great!

I have several typefaces in the works and don't know which will win the race first. it is my cross to bear :-)

Chris, remember how Matthew Carter at your type critique a few years ago said of your Now Sans, "finish this one first"? Not that he knows anything about type :) I agree with him and Jean Paul. It's awesome.

This is great, but I hope I can persuade you to change the amputated Q. In ultralight it is acceptable, in medium it is somewhat awkward, in black it looks ridiculous and makes unreasonable demands of line spacing.

Thanks Kevin! Q is problematic at the moment, you're right, you're not the first to notice. It'll be addressed.

Hi Jean Paul,

Great start to Aubaine.

I agree with Hrant that the g needs help... possibly making the bowl stroke closer to closed. The ear of the lowercase g looks out of place with the slight wavy curve you are designing with many of the other letter strokes... you might want to try a slight wave to the ear stroke of the lower case g. The lower case g looks slightly narrow comparing it with the relative overall widths of the other lower case letters.

I also feel that the black lower case weight is a little too dense with some small closed counter forms like the lower case e. I also feel that there is to much contrast between the thick to thin strokes.

Regards, Sal

Before I begin spacing, I noticed two comments that were about character shapes, or rather, the obvious differences between the ultralight and black. I thought I'd better handle that first... So, after a day of redrawing most of the glyphs, I think I've achieved a more consistent feel - the ultralight and black fit better together. Please check out the PDF.

The R looks high-waisted in the black weight.

***Promoted to the front page!***

I guess I'll still use ITC Goudy Sans

Wowzers. I'd love to add something constructive to this thread, but I don't think I could. This is fantastic work, very well done!

@Robert: Although Goudy Sans is in my eyes completely different, everybody's free to use whatever font they like :-)

@CaleD: Thanks mate! Please revisit this thread in a couple of days for some more updates. Perhaps you'll see something then!

Taking a little break from Aubaine here...

Jean Paul --
An elegant face in the lighter weights -- but two things hit me right off:

One - the /G/ seems to list to the left (Aubaine Extra Light). I think the shape of the bottom curve as it relates to the baseline may be responsible for this.

Two - the bowl of the /P/ may be too large (or the stem too short! :)

I saw these two "issues" immediately in your first showing at the top of the thread, and both are still there now in the light version. The problem with the /G/ disappears in the heavier versions, but the /P/ issue remains. In your regular weight posted on the 20th, the /P/ almost seems to be riding above the baseline.

These are *minor* points of note in this very clean and relaxed face.

It's still fascinating to me to sense the change of feel in a typeface as it goes from light to extra bold. Really different animals at the extremes.

Thanks for this.
Clair

Thanks Clair! "Relaxed" is just what I'm going for (not just in design ;-))!
You're absolutely right about the "different animals". I addressed this some time ago by redrawing the black weight with more consideration for the inner white shapes so it's much more similar and in balance with the ultralight. I still haven't posted a new PDF though, it's coming soon!
Good point about P and G, which was bugging me from the very beginning.

Lovely. Really beautiful stuff. Proportions and shapes are really polished.

Observations:
Black g needs more help. To me it looks quite bottom-heavy. I've found that open-tailed design almost impossible in black weights before. I think taking weight of the top of the tail will allow more space under the bowl, and possibly also allow the bowl to be taller, but you'll need to try every imaginable way of distributing the weight until it clicks.

x may be a bit wide across the weights. k also perhaps in the light and medium. And it looks slightly too curvy to my eye. Black k looks a bit high-waisted and possibly too narrow.

Angled foot of K and R doesn't seem to match other perpendicular-cut terminals, would you reconsider that?

Black U looks a tiny bit light. Making it wider may allow more weight on the stems without disrupting the balance.

There's lots of good stuff going on here. I'm enjoying this one.

Looks nice. One thing that caught my eye was that the bold "a" differs too much from the lighter versions.
The "g" is a little compressed at the top. The Q is too fat at the top horizontal part.
The V and W are higher than the other chars.
Also try a large line spacing in the sample text.

Ga zo door en succes. :)

Please tell me you haven't thrown this one in the bin... I think this could be a bestseller, if you'd only finish it :-)

No no, it's not in the bin!
If only I had more time ;-)

Finally I had some time to continue...
For some reason I can't upload any PDFs, so please check them out here:

http://www.omashuisje.nl/AubaineUltraLightglyphs.pdf
http://www.omashuisje.nl/AubaineSemiLightglyphs.pdf
http://www.omashuisje.nl/AubaineMediumglyphs.pdf

BTW, I noticed /=/ and /€/ haven't interpolated properly...

Looking good! :-)

This is looking good. The design idea is carried through well, so it has a distinct and appealing flavor.

The serpentine curve of the /N/ diagonal feels backwards to me - wouldn't it fit better with the others if the curve bent to make the joins more open rather than more pointy?

/Q/'s tail seems a bit lifeless.

I might make the caps a tiny bit bigger.

Something's up with your semilight Euro and Yen crossbars.

Thanks guys.
I too noticed that the caps are just a bit tiny, especially in small sizes. Haven't decided to change it yet... I might though ;-)
I'll take another look at /N/ (/M/ too as a natural course of action) and /Q/.
/¥/, /€/ and /=/ haven't interpolated into SemiLight quite properly. I'll look into that as well.

New proof here:

http://www.omashuisje.nl/AubaineUltraLightglyphs.pdf
http://www.omashuisje.nl/AubaineSemiLightglyphs.pdf
http://www.omashuisje.nl/AubaineMediumglyphs.pdf

Changes made in UltraLight:
/M/ /N/ /Q/ /ß/ /fi/ /&/ /@/ /™/

Changes made in Medium:
/e/ (+ diacritics) /M/ /N/ /Q/ /ß/ /fi/ /&/ /@/ /™/ 0123456789

Question: are the number too fat?

Changed /@/ again...

Cool @

Ah, "@ is for Andromeda"! :-)

hhp

IMO it's too tightly wound for this face, and you'd be better off building something from a one-story /a/.

A one-story /@/ has been added as a .salt.
Finishing oldstyle figures and smallcaps as we speak.
New PDFs to be posted soon.

Note that the ideal "@" is one where you don't see an "a" in it.

hhp

Some minor changes made. Please feel free to comment.
You'll find the most recent proof at http://www.omashuisje.nl/Aubaine_proef.pdf

I like the hurricane @ but I think the lower arm is now a bit cramped and could stand to sweep below the baseline some.

Good one, Cerulean, thanks! It'll be adjusted!

I find on second look that I have committed the error of judging a pdf onscreen without zooming enough, and my observation was of a rendering distortion. But if you found it helpful anyway, great.

It should work both on screen as in print ;-)

Since this morning Aubaine is finished. It's become a lovely design in seven weights with 586 glyphs each. I'm proud of it! E-mails to online foundries have been sent.

I'd like to thank you all, without your feedback I would never have made it this far!

Best regards,
Jean Paul

Congrats and good luck!

Congrats!

Just saw it on MyFonts. Great job!

BTW, I also like your Eastburgh a lot. The "quirkiness" is so well integrated in the font that it doesn't disturb the overall picture at all.

Thanks Eliason, LexLuengas and Catharsis!

Aubaine is available from:

Our own site
MyFonts
FontSpring
FontDeck
YouWorkForThem
Fonts.com (coming soon)