Custom type design’s real appeal is in managing licensing and distribution. As long as there is “Branding” there will be custom type design.

Hi Jon!

I’m not sure about the US market. But judging from myself and several colleagues I would say the market is expanding ;-)

Over the past 3-4 years the market seems to have expanded
quite a bit, with a lot of work going to indie foundries. I do
worry about the future though.

hhp

Like much of the type market, information is mainly anecdotal.
I’m sure my experience is very different from James’—although I agree with his theory of the brand-driven impetus.

If you are interested about this sort of thing Jon, you could commission a survey now, and follow up later to see if there has been a change. It would involve analyzing a list of foundries and seeing what they reveal about their custom work. However, they might not reveal all their custom work (I don’t get around to posting everything I do, whether or not I am happy with the results), and just scanning foundries might not pick up all active work. For instance, some lettering artists also do custom type design, such as Ian Brignell’s new font for Bell.

Custom type varies by country. I get the impression there is more corporate work in the UK, more periodical work in North America.

With regard to Hrant’s concern, I would say that declining news sales in the US, coupled with consolidation (both economic and technological), might lead to a reduced demand for custom news fonts. On the other hand, technology can open up new markets (on the internet perhaps?)

While it might seem that an economic downturn would reduce the budget for custom type, on the other hand, a dramatic change in the zeitgeist could rapidly obselesce exisiting identities, leading to a demand for rebranding. And then of course, with bankruptcies and takovers, new corporate identites emerge which will require expression. Recession as opportunity.

Jon, how much would you charge a customer for rights to install a typical Veer font on say 100,000 desktops worldwide, allow modification rights, and let the customer share the font with their agencies and suppliers?

If your quote is more than an independent type designer would charge for a custom design, then there’s a market for custom type.

Cheers, Si

I do worry about the future though.

this seems to be a trend with you lately, Hrant. what gives?

Well, the economic news is quite an issue these days. It has to effect custom work, but my guess would be later, like next spring. My 2¢.

Thanks very much everyone. Agree with Nick that it’s mostly anecdotal – apart from you guys posting inquiries and discussions about who designed what typeface, and concluding where they came from. “Ah, it must be custom...” :-)

And then of course, with bankruptcies and takovers, new corporate identites emerge which will require expression. Recession as opportunity.

Good point Nick. I expect we’ll see some lovely logos for Wells Wachovia and the like. Thanks for the Brignell link too – beautiful work.

If your quote is more than an independent type designer would charge for a custom design, then there’s a market for custom type.

True Si. I’d add: Providing the clients have time to wait for the custom design, which they often don’t. But our type researchers in customer service do refer clients to type designers on occasion.

Paul: I don’t consider myself a pessimist. If I did I wouldn’t spend one second on type design. But I do like to keep people (including myself) on their toes! :-)

hhp

“Providing the clients have time to wait for the custom design, “

Those same customers are waiting for new logo and identity design so why not have a type designer do a face for them during this same period? It seems Kris Sowersby turned a custom face around in a few weeks time (see his NZ bank thread.

http://typophile.com/node/50053

ChrisL

In any market there is going the be a moment when saturation occurs — eg most people own your product(s). After this the market is one of steady renewal of obsolete stuff. Example: iPods. You own one, you buy a new one when it breaks down.

Type is not a normal business, of course, but the basic principle of saturating a market still applies, imo. How many typefaces do you use? How many do you need? How much new stuff is exciting enough?

Something to think about: the implementation of OpenType is probably an impetus for continuing growth is type sales, but the time will come where this technology has matured with the evident consequence that sales of OT-faces will slow down.

Interesting question. I am going to think some more about this.

. . .
Bert Vanderveen BNO

Bert, that also raises the question: does the availability of multiple versions of almost every typeface designed in the last century, which includes revivals of many great faces from the past five centuries, eventually saturate the market for typographic anachronism? Does that make new commissions more exciting? And will the growing public awareness of design professions get leaders of government excited about commissioning new type in the same way they get exciting about commissioning new architecture instead of just licensing existing blueprints?

Bert, that’s a very cogent point. I guess the wide availability of good, affordable fonts is exactly what has bolstered the custom market!

hhp

Like a lot of other products/services there will be a high end part of the business where snobbish people/firms will want to display their uniqueness by commissioning custom typefaces (example: David Berlow did a fontfamily for some billionaire who wanted the digital interfaces for his multimillion dollar ship to reflect the excellence he aimed for in every aspect of its design and build — David presented that during Type 2008). [Fashion: haute couture like John Galliano).

A larger, but still small group of companies/individuals will buy the more exclusive and pricy fonts that might for instance trickle down to the market after their exclusive rights have ended. Some designers may cater to this group. (Fashion: like Dries van Noten).

A greater part of the market will just follow the trends that smart marketeers will initiate. As happens in a lot of other fashionlike industries (cars, clothes, shoes, etc.). Fast-and-furious typedesigners could make a bundle here (Kris is fast!), but they need marketing prowess and power. (Fashion: Donna Karan, Ralph Lauren).

The masses will just use what comes along, preferably free, maybe with some likeness to what is hip. But most of all: cheap. Think of thousands of name– and faceless type-engineers in sweatshops in China or Vietnam, drawing/building quick and dirty knockoffs of bestselling typefaces, marketing them through the internet, or by including 10 cent coupons in breakfast cereals. (Fashion: Hennes & Mauritz, GAP).

A pretty bleak future, I realise now. : )

Hrant: leaders of government have seldom shown any degree of good taste. That is not going to change soon, I think. In the Netherlands the powers that be have decided that all of the different identities of governmental departments and organisations have to go and in future one Identity Program for All will be used. If they had done that 15 years ago, some very fine typefaces (like Lud[as] de Groots Corpid) would not exist.
Euro money looks awful, esp for us Dutch who had arguably the most beautiful paper money in the world — Roger Pfunds Swiss stuff is also okay, I give them that —, and that was the result of a decision by a handful of so called leaders and civil servants, who apparantly had no taste as well. More of this is going to happens as institutions become larger and larger and less democratic.

Shit, reading what I wrote, the future looks even bleaker now. My plans to do some typedesigning probably will have to wait another twenty years, when I can do it as a hobby…

. . .
Bert Vanderveen BNO

Bert, you don’t understand how custom type may contribute to the synergy of design projects, developed in concert with other design elements.
With your cynical attitude, you should probably postpone your type design plans permanently.

Bert, sure something will follow up the OpenType format as well :-)

Grrrben: Like the hydrogen engine did to the combustion engine? OpenType will be around for the next century. At least.

Nick: Design projects are far more than type. And with around 60k typefaces to choose from finding a suitable face is less of a hurdle than a chore. And custom is always an option, right?
And re my design plans: I have been thinking about optical sizes for the last decade or so and think I have found an approach that could be of use. Now I just need to find the time (and funding) to draw/build the first 9 times 5 typefaces. As a proof of concept, that is.
And cynical is not the way most people that know me characterise me. Stubborn, somewhat arrogant, but funny (I like that one best, funny goes a long way…)

. . .
Bert Vanderveen BNO

”...who wanted the digital interfaces for his multimillion dollar ship” [and analog interfaces]...”[Fashion: haute couture like John Galliano)”
That is one way of looking at it. Another way could be that when the deck is rolling, the rain is coming down in sheets, and the salt is stinging your eyes, why would you also want to read 60% horizontally scaled 8.2 point Bank Gothic on a 14 mm square button, or a MS “Cleartype font” with CAD operator-quality typography? Additionally, fashion, to a great extent, depends on people seeing the fashion, which is also hardly the case in the plucked instance. I am not saying I’ve never done custom type design for the sake of fashion, but the boat fonts were not one such instance.

I believe the market is growing. The reason I say so, is because we’ve always been busy with it for 20 years now, and though we used to ’own’ a 100% market share, there are now hundreds of custom font designers, and we only have a 1% market share for the same amount of work being done by us. ;)

Cheers!

I am not saying I’ve never done custom type design for the sake of fashion, but the boat fonts were not one such instance.

I stand corrected. I was not clear enough in my line of thought, but in general I stand with my analogy of high fashion etcetera. In this case you kinda designed a very expensive outfit for a firefighter. Working clothes, but still high fashion.

. . .
Bert Vanderveen BNO

>OpenType will be around for the next century

No, I highly doubt that. I do not think it will be at all. I think that it will be replaced by another format. No idea when or by what, of course, but I’d bet on it.

Nick, thanks for sharing Ian’s website. Lots of great work there I hadn’t seen before (or rather hadn’t attributed to him!).

fashion, to a great extent, depends on people seeing the fashion

Not so sure about that.
Designer lingerie might require only an audience of one other, or a single narcissist.

>OpenType will be around for the next century

No, I highly doubt that. I do not think it will be at all. I think that it will be replaced by another format. No idea when or by what, of course, but I’d bet on it.

See what Dan has done there? If OpenType gets replaced, he wins the bet right then. But he can’t lose the bet until the next century comes around!

For the record, I also think that OpenType is likely to get replaced by 2100.

Quite separate from the question of formats, though, I think there are plenty of unexplored areas in type design that call out for custom work. I wish there were more billionaires, corporations, governments that would support custom type design work for traditionally neglected areas like, say, minority languages.

That Bell Slim is cool - it just needs optical correction.
Plus the lack of a text (ie spacing) showing is disconcerting.

hhp

For the record, I also think that OpenType is likely to get replaced by 2100.

We won’t need fonts in 2100, because we’ll be telepathically downloading information.

“Designer lingerie...”
Touché. But then, we are not talking about custom agate here. ;)

Cheers!