The tate type face is custom! try something like simple, or typ1451! actually just try Lineto!!

ArtsyFartsyFancy.

This typewriter font isn’t anything even close to fonts like 1451.
Look first.

Probably based on Everson Mono, as Angel71 had suggested in this thread. Cf. the lc g.

Well Jan, I did look first thats why I suggested something like simple! I was thought he might also like typ1451! I was just trying to be helpful as nobody had replied to his trend... but I apologize if It wasn't up to your standard!

Robert.
Sorry, but this is definitely about a typewriter font. So, that’s what we are looking for.
It’s not about my standarts.

I just don't think you should presume someone doesn't look at a post, I don't think there is any need to state it in your comment! Including saying my suggestions are "ArtsyFartsyFancy". If you look at lineto I think you'll find a number of typewriter faces!

I think I was just trying to be helpful and you were simply being rude.

Also instead of making criticisms you could actually try post a suggestion to help first of all!

Robert.
Yes. I was being rude. I’m sorry. “ArtsyFartsyFancy” was rather generally commenting on the overuse of lineto fonts whenever it comes to making really cool design. It wasn’t meant personally.

There's a good reason why these typefaces keep appearing in contemporary art & design. Then again isn't that exactly what the tate is about.

Well I'm sorry for suggesting typ1451!

I shouldn't have generalized his search for a typeface to a foundry like lineto! I should have made a more informed decision on my type suggestions and will in future!

Thanks for the replies guys, and the alternative suggestions. Florian, which thread are you referring to? (there was no link in your previous message)
Thanks

Seán.

What is the good reason?

EVERYBODY that uses Lineto stuff NOW does cool contemporary stuff? Isn’t that plain boring?

This is a pointless argument Jan. Since when has the fact that something is trendy been the reason to turn your nose up at it? On this basis should we hate Helvetica or Avant Garde? Sure they're overused but thats not to say they're bad typefaces. There's plenty of terrible design out there using these faces but again you can't blame the typeface for that.
As for your comment “ArtsyFartsyFancy”. What may I ask you is even remotely Artsy, Fartsy or Fancy about Lineto typefaces?

> On this basis should we hate Helvetica or Avant Garde?

Not hate them, but definitely avoid them. Like, really. :^P

> As for your comment “ArtsyFartsyFancy”. What may I ask you is even remotely Artsy, Fartsy or Fancy about Lineto typefaces?

Not the typefaces themselves, but the context they are used in. We witness successive fashion waves here on the Type ID Board, and this is one of them. Lineto designs are usually very forward-thinking, but the context they are used in is so very safe and boring these days, which effectively diminishes their worth in my opinion. It's the 'white tiger' syndrome -- instead of being creative and trying to break the mould, many designers think that using the cool typeface all the other cool designers use is sufficient to make their work interesting. Not.

Lineto’s fonts (Gravur, Typ 1451 and so on) are what they are: minimalist, industrial style fonts. That’s OK. I certainly don’t blame Lineto for anything. Their fonts seem to be designed by designers for their own work, because nothing available fits the bill. I respect that a lot. It’s creating your own style.

There just have been so many ID-requests that turned out to be Lineto fonts lately.
”Wanna be cool? - Look over at Lineto!“ seems to have become automatic. That’s my point. Being trendy is just copying styles. We all do that, of course. But we should be aware of it.

Peace.

@Arran:
which thread are you referring to? (there was no link in your previous message)

Sorry, it seems I’ve missed to insert the URL. Here it is:
http://www.typophile.com/node/33609

Re the Lineto connection:
Well, I don’t think it is that far fetched. After all, the art director of the Tate Etc Magazine is Cornel Windlin, one of the founders of Lineto. Laurenz Brunner, designer of Akkurat, has also worked for Tate Etc. It definitely breathes the same spirit.

And re Lineto fonts and their use:
As for me, I like them a lot. Have you seen their latest additions?
But I can also see what Jan dislikes about their typical usage and the me-too attitude of some LTypI designers.

many designers think that using the cool typeface […] is sufficient

Very well put, Yves!

Peace. :D

Bald Condensed - "[about Helvetica & Avant Garde] Not hate them, but definitely avoid them. Like, really."

I think telling people to avoid certain typefaces' is a very unhealthy attitude to take, especially coming from you Bald Condensed, a so called typophile. Regardless of how often they have been used, the 2 faces' I mentioned Helvetica and Avant Garde, are undeniably brilliant typefaces and if the circumstances suit there's no reason why these faces can't still be used to create outstanding design. The same applies to Lineto faces.

Designers should be allowed to make there own decisions instead of consigning certain typefaces to the 'do not touch bin'.

Must be the "custom-made Tate Mono font" referred to here:

http://www.practise.co.uk/work/2004/time-zones-exhibition.html

“There is new signage and typeface - a blurred Tate logo from designer Wolf Olins”.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20000324/ai_n14284441

naoiseo.

I think Bald wasn’t all that serious about “definitely avoiding them, like really”.

I think Avant Garde was only brilliant when used by Lubalin himself. You can read about it here (Quote Ed Benguiat:“The only place Avant Garde looks good is in the words Avant Garde. ...).

Neville Brody about Times: “..., and when you look at a piece of work set in Times, you see nothing but a piece of work set in Times. ...” (from The Graphic Language of Neville Brody). This is probably how I feel about Helvetica. For a list of alternatives you might wanna take a look here. Another alternative would be Lineto’s Akkurat, of course, or Kris Sowersby’s National.

Cheers.

Jan I'm well aware of the background of Avant Garde. I have read the Thinking For a Living article before and found it a bit lacking. There's much better information on the background of the face here in this thread http://typophile.com/node/16469 and in the links mentioned within.

As for your comments about Helvetica, why use an alternative when the alternatives rarely live up to the original? Not too keen on National, the capitals are a bit small for my taste. Akkurat is a beautiful face but lacks the depth of weights and styles of Helvetica. Anyway we seem to have deviated wildly for the point here.

I understand both Naoise's and Bald's point and I can appreciate that Bald my not be that serious about avoiding Helvetica, while he probably is about Avant Garde.

I think Avant Garde is sometimes overused by people with an untrained eye but every once in a while I think people really can do great stuff with it. I think one of the best examples of how and how not to use Avant Garde is Grafik. I personally love the Grafik logo, but using Avant Garde as your body text is just painful, I really feel it takes away from the magazine.

As for Helvetica, I rarely like to bad mouth one of my favourite typefaces, Although you wouldn't find it in much of my work. This is probably due to the stigma that surrounds the typeface. As for a use of one particular typeface It's more important to examine the design and see if there was an appropriate choice made in regards to the content.

Like all other design disciplines in the end the choice of a design element can often come down to a fashion trend. Which may in this case be Helvetica, Avant Garde or a lineto typeface. But soon enough what was once fashionable to the highend designers will overtime make its way down to the lay person designing a flyer to a small gig!

There are many designers using both Helvetica and Avant Garde and I personally feel using them well. Build,Effektive,Madethought,Un.titled for example.

These designers don't have to resort to alternatives to produce stunning original work.

p.s may we start a new thread?

Re: Neville Brody about Times: “..., and when you look at a piece of work set in Times, you see nothing but a piece of work set in Times. ...” (from The Graphic Language of Neville Brody).

And funnily enough, when you look at a piece of work set in Blur...

Love it Simon

Before we close off this discussion, I'd just like to say that I don't particularly like people second-guessing me. So to make everything clear and avoid any more misunderstandings:

I was serious about avoiding Helvetica and ITC Avant Garde Gothic. This is a personal statement, and I am not telling anyone else what to do or not do. Usually it's designers suffering from tunnel vision like Massimo Vignelli and his followers that go about trying to convince everyone to do it their way (re: his (in)famous five typefaces credo).

So on a personal level, all I can say is that I will never use Helvetica or ITC Avant Garde Gothic unless I have a very very good reason to do so. That is because, yes, I am a Typophile, Naoise. I think I know enough about type to not be starstruck by the perennial "classic" fonts and make well-informed choices about which typefaces to choose for specific jobs. When you say they are "undeniably brilliant typefaces" and "the alternatives rarely live up to the original", that is your personal opinion, not a scientific fact. I personally find that Helvetica often falls short due to the problems in its design and structure, which is why since its rise in popularity many talented type designers have designed alternatives which deal with these shortcomings.

Never ever again assume that I am "a so-called Typophile" just because I have a different opinion than yours. Please let's not resort to that kind of fundamentalism and respect each other's choices in an open dialogue.

Peace.

BTW Robbie I wrote two articles for Grafik and never managed to read the printed articles in the magazine, let alone the rest of the magazine. It's a friggin' nightmare. :^D

I’d just like to say that I don’t particularly like people second-guessing me.

Sorry Yves.

This is definitely not my lucky thread.

That's OK, Jan. ;^)

Just happens so often in online discussions. No-one's fault in particular.

Please check out Unimark for Helvetica overuse!

A simple site that takes you through a brief history of the world’s largest design firm, Unimark International. Founded by Ralph Eckerstrom and Massimo Vignelli, Unimark only lasted 13 years but some of the most famous corporate identities were born behind its doors. My favorite is the work done for Memorex.

Courtesy of Aisle One

No wonder they have a brief history they just used one typeface for every logo. Including the Memorex (They did use a stroke), look like designers will never change!

p.s I don't want to anger any design gods!

I personally find that Helvetica often falls short due to the problems in its design and structure

Could you be more specific? Thread link possibly? I have been trying to find info on this topic.

Too much similarity in the shapes, too squarish, too sluggish, doesn't "breathe", lousy as a text face. Yes it looks beautiful in the anemic weights, very tightly spaced at big point sizes. As Erik Spiekermann comments in the Helvetica movie: "Those are not people, it is an army".

I don't know of any literature or online threads on the topic. Most of it extols its brilliance.

Strange how there's no literature or online threads on this topic.

Don't you think?

> Strange how there’s no literature or any online threads on this topic.

Don’t you think?

Is that a very polite way of telling me I'm full'a'shit and inventing all this on the spot? :^D

(Just joking, dude, no worries) ;^)

:) At least he was polite!

Now your second-guessing. ;)

The reason I called you "a so called Typophile" Yves, was because of your lack of open-mindedness towards the use of the typefaces mentioned and not any kind of mad fundamentalism. I don't actually use either of these faces very often but I believe designers should be allowed use them without being frowned upon if they suit their intended purpose.

Yes Yves, beginning a statement with the phrase "I think" usually implies ones opinion and for the most part my comments are my opinion, yet as I stated in one of my posts it's "undeniable" that Helvetica and Avant Garde are brilliant faces. I base this opinion on the sheer amount of comment, blogs, movies and books out there on these typefaces. The same way there is squat diddily written on the failings of Helvetica. ;)

As for your comments about Helvetica, why use an alternative when the alternatives rarely live up to the original?

“The original” isn’t even the original. It’s an interpretation of Akzidenz Grotesk.
But I’m sure you know that. Use Helvetica if you like. I didn’t mean to say that you should use an alternative. But you could. Calling Helvetica and Avant Garde brilliant sounded like those are the ultimate sans serifs to me. I certainly can’t agree with that.

depth of weights and styles of Helvetica

Agreed.

And funnily enough, when you look at a piece of work set in Blur...
Love it Simon
Come on. He was talking text faces, of course.

> your lack of open-mindedness

Yup, you do know me. Discussion closed, this is getting nowhere.