If they are using design software (inDesign, Illustrator), it shouldn’t matter what platform they’re on — the kerning should be the same on each platform. If they’re using Microsoft software (on either platform), it’s a crapshoot. Some MS software doesn’t recognize kerning and some has it turned off by default. You can go into the MS help system to see how to turn on kerning (I’d imagine it could be different from one program to the next).

It’s hard to know what the issues are without knowing anything other than you saying it is terrible or poor quality. There’s nothing about PCs that creates inherently bad type, particularly when you’re using an Adobe application which (and Tom will correct me if I’m wrong) doesn’t even use the built-in type engine on either the Mac or the PC. Type set in InDesign should look exactly the same regardless of which platform you’re running the program on. The only difference could be the fonts themselves, the skill of the students, or something in the printers or print drivers that causes lower-quality output than you expect (which may be a situation specific to the computer lab setups on your campus — I certainly don’t see any difference in type quality on my laser or inkjet printers between my Mac and PC).

Maybe you should have students with bad type send you a PDF or the file itself so that you can see what’s happening and correct them.

Hey Irene - the quality of a font has nothing to do with the platform. Indesign is - HAS to be - absolutely identical in terms of word/letterspacing on both systems. We’re producing material on both systems and constantly work on Windows and OSX and the design is not affected in the very least.

MS Word, Powerpoint and such, of course are NOT Designtools and shouldn’t be treated as such. They are office software and pretty good for that - writing a letter, a postdoctoral thesisor maybe doing a bit of calculating in Excel - but they’re absolutely not up to real design work. They can be, anything can be used for design... but they are very very limited and you have to work not with, but against the software.

But other than that it makes no difference whatsoever. Our studio has been working with Windows for the past 15 years or so - and it doesn’t matter at all. We’re only just now switching back to Apple because it seems that Vista - and Windows 7, which has been teased a short while ago - isn’t doing for us what it’s supposed to and OS X is better suited for our needs. XP, however, was a rather solid operational system.

There is no difference whatsoever between the different platform versions of professional design applications, and now with OpenType, the fonts are also cross-compatible. If the corralation exists between the quality of the work and the choice of platform, it’s probably an inverse one, where those who are more serious about design pick the platform that happens to be more popular among other designers.
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Personal Art and Design Portal of Ivan Gulkov
www.ivangdesign.com

There two things involved with good type reproduction. A decent graphics program (Adobe) and original fonts with the proper metrics—not rip-offs. I would stay away from MS fonts.

I second everybody else: this is an issue caused by the PC users using bad fonts or bad software. My design teachers solved this problem by mandating the use of Indesign or Quark and pointing out bad fonts when they appeared on the wall.

Thank you for the input! I just needed to hear that people are working on both platforms and getting the same results. I always thought/knew that this was the case and I needed to hear this. I am telling you I can look at 25 assigments on a crit wall and pick every single project created on a PC because of the type quality.

I will check MS Word on the PC to see if kerning defaults to on or off. Thanks for this tip.

I think it is going to be difficult to get to the heart of the problem in my Intro To Type class since people are using any programs they own to fulfill their assignments on the PC. I suspect Word is being commonly used and Excel or Powerpoint are not. I explain that Word is just for creating documents and not for design but I have many MS students who are game designers or web designers that are taking the class to learn about type but are not willing to commit to purchasing Adobe design programs.

My students do not have access to a computer lab so all work is done off campus on personal computers and is output on all types of printers. I don’t have control over the fonts they use and I cannot require them to purchase fonts or programs like InDesign.

However, this semester I am teaching a print design class in which they are required to use InDesign so that will be one common denominator for both platforms. I suspect many students are using MS fonts as they work at MS or they are using fonts that are preloaded with the computer. I will have some identical design projects created using both platforms and that will be interesting to compare, BUT they will still be using their own fonts as I cannot distribute fonts for their use. I understand the equation for success (Adobe and proper quality fonts) but I also need to give them as much as possible to succeed with what they are working with. A compromise, for sure.

I need to see if Adobe offers any free Open Type fonts for use. This would eliminate the second variable for the Print Design class. Then it will be interesting to see the quality of the projects and the type.

Thanks -
irene

Could it be that the Mac users have some pre-existing graphics design experience / expertise which allows them to trump default settings in InDesign?

When the A320 or 737 goes down it’s usually pilot error?

Technically the apps are the same, the fonts are the same - how about the output devices, are the printers the same?

If you can’t get the students to buy Indesign or Quark, there’s always Scribus. Of course, that might not go over well with the Microsoft crowd anyway, but I digress…

Is there a need for computers in an intro-to-type class?
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Personal Art and Design Portal of Ivan Gulkov
www.ivangdesign.com

BTW, if they don’t want to buy professional design software, you can tell them to download open-source options like InkScape and Gimp.

_____________________________________________
Personal Art and Design Portal of Ivan Gulkov
www.ivangdesign.com

Ask your PC using students which software they are using, not just which machine. I would bet the PC users with bad looking type are using office softyware or even worse, Powerpoint. Adobe software gives good results on both platforms. Also, find out which printer are being used. Postscript laser printers give good results. The others can be a crapshoot.

ChrisL

In this intro-to-type class we do almost everything by hand. There are 2 assignments where 1/2 the assignment is done on the computer - The kerning exercise is done by hand and then created on the computer to introduce computer kerning skills. The grid exercise is done by hand and then I bridge with the computer to set a headline and example of the body copy. Given the makeup of these students, I would have a mutiny if computers did not come into the class structure, even in an intro class. These are tech people in a class taught 10 miles from the main Microsoft campus and 2 miles from Expedia. If I can get any of these people to kern their type, improve their visual aesthetics and make educated type choices then I have done my job with this group. If they continue on with me for additional classes then they must use InDesign.

Believe me, my type and design classes at design schools are much easier than this school. I am just trying to work within the PC world and give them tools and knowledge that work and that produce good typography.

InkScape and Gimp, I will introduce these. Should be interesting.

It sounds like the bad typesetting is coming from students using MS Word or Publisher or something even worse from Microsoft. I use both Macs and PCs, and with apps like Pagemaker, Quark and InDesign results are identical from Mac and PC.

There is a way of getting MS Word to space things properly—install Acrobat (not the reader, the full editor proggy) and Acrobat Distlller, then print Word .DOCs with Acrobat as the virtual printer. Results are much better than the same .DOC printed natively.

j a m e s