Also here and here.

Very nice, Dan: I particularly like the sample at the bottom of the page Chris pointed to. ;-)

Thanks, Linda! It is from the Typophile Wiki: Pangram

:-) Had a good friend in Ottawa whose idea of "fun at the bar on a Friday night" was to take the tiles from Scrabble and challenge people to construct pangrams. Of course, after, um, several fermented beverages, the "creations" were quite, ah, interesting and frequently obscene.

(And no, I don't remember any of them!)

Can you believe I found out about this via Flickr?
This boxer is definitely losing it.

Dan, I think you've done it right - the lc is brilliant.
It would've been great to have had this years ago!

hhp

>It would’ve been great to have had this years ago!

Well, better late than never! Let's see if anybody uses it :-\

Interesting that they don't mention the original name, Bank Gothic.

A long time ago I flirted with the idea of doing an MM version of Bank Gothic - I think I still have my tests. I had considered adding a lower case, but I didn't do any actual experiments there. I think that what I had in my head was very different from what Dan has done, so it's very interesting to see his treatment.

Congratulations, Dan!

T

"Well, better late than never! Let’s see if anybody uses it :-\"

I'll use it Dan!

ChrisL

A long time ago I flirted with the idea of doing an MM version of Bank Gothic - I think I still have my tests. I had considered adding a lower case, but I didn’t do any actual experiments there.

I always wanted to see an MM design that had a "case" axis.

BTW, I think I can guess, but what's the rationale
for making the caps visibly darker than the lc?

hhp

Hrant: you mentioned this question about the weight in another post today, and I just typed in an answere there. Here is a link to it on that thread (the one about x-heights) — http://typophile.com/node/31427#comment-186105

Thomas: I made a MM font in FontLab after the design process had ended, mostly because my ideal version of this typeface's design would have a weigt between the light and the regular, and a width between the regular (which is quite extended) and the condensed!

How would you have drawn the lowercase? Questions, questions!

Spire: I've been tinkering with a Unicase version of some of the fonts. In their case, you could sort of have a case axis, because the upper and lowercase forms are more similar. This isn't what you had in mind, I guess, since it eliminates any wierdly-morphed middle stages.

Unicase is generally a waste of valuable time.

hhp

…but it can be so fun fun as a display diversion.

Of course it isn't serious. If it were serious, it would have been built into the fonts as a stylistic alternate already. But everybody day-dreams and tinkers now and again.

Dan, in that other thread you say that the caps look "right" when they're darker. Concerning this, I have a theory that larger things look aesthetically more appealing when darker. Or lighter, depending on your taste*... The point is they look boring at the "normal" weight, if you know what I mean.

* Which seems to be the case more often if you're a baby-boomer.

In the case of Morris Sans I was actually suspecting that the original weight in Bank Gothic determined the weight in the new fonts (but the lc would look too dark if it matched that weight). And maybe it's this familiarity with the original that makes the darker weight look "right".

hhp

Unicase might be fun for the artist in you, but not fun for the users who are missing out on something more useful you could make instead. There's yippeeee fun, then there's serious fun. But if yippeeee fun helps a type designer stay sane, then that's certainly useful. Yippeeee for its own sake however is not something the world needs more of right now, I feel.

hhp

"Unicase is generally a waste of valuable time..." when designing text typefaces.

;^)

I think in some designs unicase is a nice addition for those who might use it in display settings.

> In the case of Morris Sans I was actually suspecting that the original weight in Bank
> Gothic determined the weight in the new fonts (but the lc would look too dark if it
> matched that weight). And maybe it’s this familiarity with the original that makes
> the darker weight look “right”.

Yes. Linotype had old Ikarus data for the caps of the medium weight, normal width font. I cleaned this up and used it. The rest of the letters that I drew for the Medium were designed to optically match these, so of course they are lighter than the caps themselves.

The other five fonts in the family were designed this one. So, the Medium cap glyphs are more or less "historic," and everything else is bult to harmonize around them. So I guess we agree! The caps had to maintain their weight. If the non-cap glyphs were any darker, they'd be too happy.

In an ideal face, designed for legibility, one would start with the lowercase letters, and then draw the capital letters.

Tiffany:
> I think in some designs unicase is a nice addition for those who might
> use it in display settings.

However, there are not that many suitable unicase fonts for them to choose from.

Hrant:
>Yippeeee for its own sake however is not something the world needs more of right now

This is also a point of view I can understand. But people tend to think that they have enough time to complete everything they want to accomplish, no?

> If the non-cap glyphs were any darker, they’d be too happy.

:->

> people tend to think that they have enough time to
> complete everything they want to accomplish, no?

Are you being serious dude?

hhp

Dan, for once I'm going to agree with Hrant: I never have enough time to complete everything I want to accomplish. :-(

But sometimes, you delay your real work with a diversion don't you? We call this rationalized procrastination. :-)

ChrisL

"All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy"

ChrisL

But sometimes, you delay your real work with a diversion don’t you? We call this rationalized procrastination. :-)

Who, me? ;-)

(she said, waiting for better light before proceeding on a rush job....)

"If you always do something that interests you, at least one person will be pleased."

--Katharine Hepburn

Not that being a hard head is a good idea, but she had a point.

>> If the non-cap glyphs were any darker, they’d be too happy.
> :->

I meant heavy, of course. Me and my typos :( But this is just as good, actually.

>> people tend to think that they have enough time to
>> complete everything they want to accomplish, no?
>Are you being serious dude?

I am being serious in writing that people often *think* they will accomplish everything they have in their plans. Of course, they never will. But no one wants to admit this to themselves, I think.

I would say that realizing and admitting one's limitations (which are
essentially those of being a human being) is part of becoming an adult.

hhp

"...that people often *think* they will accomplish everything they have in their plans. Of course, they never will. But no one wants to admit this to themselves, I think."

Guilty as charged your honor!
I am sure I will complete 250 super families of type and 500 display fonts before I die even though I have yet to complete one--given that I probably will only live 10 more years to boot :-)

ChrisL

As Dirty Harry Callahan was wont to say:

A man's got to know his limitations.