Typophile

Helvetica Unicode with Greek and Cyrillic

Bald Condensed

Bit of a problem at my job.

We produce hangtags, warranty booklets and other related
printed materials for Samsonite. Multi-lingual texts including
Eastern European, Greek and Cyrillic are sent to us which
we have to lay-out on in QuarkXPress on Mac.
These multi-lingual texts were input on PC using unicode
fonts, most probably Arial MS Unicode.

So we have a multiple problem.

First, we have no other option but to migrate to inDesign CS,
as QXP doesn't support Unicode until the bug-infested and
bankrupcy inducing version 7 is released in 2008 or so. :-)

Second, we need Helvetica (as prescribed by the Samsonite
style manual) in Rg, Ob, Bd and BdOb weights as a Unicode
font. I found a Linotype Pro version including everything I
need at MyFonts, but when I double-checked the fonts on the
Linotype site it looked as if in some instances Greek and in
other both Greek and Cyrillic were not included.

Can anybody confirm that this version of Helvetica is indeed
a Unicode font including Easter European, Cyrillic and Greek,
not as separate add-on fonts.

Yves, you need Helvetica Linotype. This is a family of four OpenType fonts. The four weights available are just the ones you need (the "italics" are only obliques).

Each of the fonts has Western Latin and Extended European (CE, Baltic, etc.), Greek, and Cyrillic characters, as well as Hebrew and Arabic. You can read the code page info in the description at the bottom of this page: http://www.linotype.com/48344/helveticalinotype-family.html

You can also purchase the fonts there, too ;-)

Helvetica Linotype was released in 2002

I'll just note that the design of the Cyrillic and Greek letters in Helvetica Linotype differs very considerably from the earlier Helvetica Cyrillic and Greek designs (the latter from the 1970s, not sure about the Cyrillic). When Linotype approach me about making a version of Helvetica for use as core fonts in software systems, I recommended redesigning the Cyrillic and Greek, and was very happy when Linotype okay'd the budget for this. It should also be noted that Helvetica Linotype was completely respaced (Latin too), because the older Helvetica fonts (and the Helvetica Pro fonts that are based on them) had inherited 18-unit spacing from earlier font formats, so had inconsistent sidebearings. This is important to note, because you won't get the same line-layout between the Helvetica Pro fonts and the new Helvetica Linotype. So if you have existing documents set in the old Helvetica fonts and don't want them to reflow, you should avoid using the new font for that text. So, for instance, you might find that you end up using the Helvetica Pro fonts for Latin text and Helvetica Linotype only for the Cyrillic and Greek.

the design of the Cyrillic and Greek letters in Helvetica Linotype differs very considerably from the earlier Helvetica Cyrillic and Greek designs (the latter from the 1970s, not sure about the Cyrillic).

The construction of many Cyrillic glyphs is also significantly different from the earlier versions of Helvetica.

Oh yes, Maxim, I know the designs are very different. I was expressing uncertainty about the date of the earlier Cyrillic.

Yves, I'm not sure if any of the other Helvetica versions can solve your problems in four single fonts.

(The following is not an official statement) For instance, from what I can tell from the Linotype webshop, Neue Helvetica Pro fonts have Western Latin and CE character sets in them, but not Greek or Cyrillic.

The OpenType fonts in the Helvetica family on the other hand are different. Std seems to have Cyrillic characters in the character set, but no CE. The surperbly hinted Com version has Latin Extended characters, which include CE glyphs but not Cyrillic ones.

If text flow issues would be a problem, and you don't think that Helvetica Linotype would be the best solution, I would recommend sending an e-mail to Linotype customer service, at info@linotype.com. If you tell them exactly what your requirements are, they should be able to give you all of the definitive answers you would need. Additionally, you can call them up if e-mail isn't your thing. Info on that here.

I should add that, whenever anyone has questions about Linotype fonts, e-mailing the company support address (info@linotype.com) is always the best way to get information. It is faster

Opps, Yves, double post! Glad to see that it can all be so easy ;)

I love this place, too.

Yves, your question wasn't misplacesd at all. I just have to point out that for 100%-accurate info about any foundry's fonts, that foundry would be the best source. This isn't marketing spin; I am not a customer service rep, and I can make mistakes, too.

The only reason I asked here was because I deemed the information as found on MyFonts and the Linotype website confusing.

This is why companies have customer service :-) . Plus, I don't think that Helvetica Linotype is for sale on MyFonts at the moment.

I think that Typophile is the best source on the internet for opinion and information exchange about typography. This is a great place to ask "what is the best font for this job" or "what are the roots of xxx typeface's design" or even "what is the future of OpenType application support?"

But the best place to find out whether or not a speciific character range is in a given commercial font is from the distributors themselves. This information is constantly changing. On a forum, you could get inaccurate advice, and then waste or lose time and money. And that would be sad. It would be great if every foundry would have their customer service reps surf typophile and other web forums around the clock to always dispense accurate information. Unfortuantely, this isn't the case at the moment, and a lot of info comes from individuals whose hearts are in the right place, but who may not be aware of certain little details in every case.

I just have to point out that for 100%-accurate info about any foundry's fonts, that foundry would be the best source.

Unless the person who actually made the font in question happens to be available, in which case you can probably get 110% accurate info, since the foundry seldom knows all the decisions that went into making the font, unless they made it internally. Even then, if the person who actually worked on the project leaves the company, typically some knowledge departs with him.

Thank you so much for clearing that up, Dan and John. I've got
one very happy colleague and one very satisfied customer now.

Ahhh... I love this place. Some might say I'm biased, but still... :-)

On the other hand, when asking on a forum I can get alternate
solutions, while the tech support staff of a foundry might be
reluctant to redirect me to the competItion. I don't want to have
my options limited by marketing considerations ... :-)

Actually, Dan's remark is quite interesting - does anybody feel
that my question was "misplaced" (to use too strong a word)?

One might indeed argue that I had better asked the question
directly to tech support at Linotype. On the other hand, I'm
usually the one who finds font-related stuff for other people.
The only reason I asked here was because I deemed the
information as found on MyFonts and the Linotype website
confusing.

Dan, don't misunderstand me - I am not annoyed or anything. :-)
I'm genuinely interested in other people's opinions about the
issue of misappropriating Typophile's resources, as we tend
to run into that quite often on the Type Identification Board.

MyFonts has a popup menu where you can select showings. There should be a Cyrillic and a Greek choice in the menu. I think they are limited in the number of characters they can show at once so that when you select "all" you get the typical western glyph set.

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