Expect a call from Mr. Ulrich's lawyer…

Metallica is, completely objectivly, the worst band in history. I wouldn't want that connotation.

@ Nick

would you care to elaborate?

@ frode frank

If you can't offer any constructive criticism than don't!

I apologize.

It has just come to my attention what this is all about.

I had no idea of the "band" Metallica. I guess being 60 gives away my ignorance.

Anyway, I simple mistake on my part.

When I designed the fonts they reminded me of METAL.

So I just added the "ica" at the end of name to make it sound interesting.

I will remove fonts immediately and come up with a better name.

Thanks for the heads-up on the matter.

Age has nothing to do with it, Alex—I suspect you were listening to a different kind of music in the 1980s!
You might also have come across Metallica when they went after Napster and piracy in 2000, which was a cause celèbre not unrelated to our line of work.

Frode, would this make it more palatable?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlyVFGr34v8&feature=fvsr

yeah... music like "The Doors", "The Who".

I listened to the "cello" Metallica link, interesting (not bad), and I found the comments entertaining.

Seriously, this font-name-picking-business is getting harder than designing fonts.

All the good names have been taken... something like 350,000 + fonts.

It's getting to the point that we have to make up names. Maybe just alpha numeric "XLR 500" to be safe.

By-the-way, any good suggestions for a new name? Much appreciated.

We should have a specific forum for dealing with "font naming" issues.

Can someone please make a "font-naming" generator.

They have one for generating music band names...

http://b10m.swal.org/cgi-bin/bandname.cgi

Anyway, I should have realized, the name sounded too cool. Probably came from somewhere in my subconscious mind.

Keep the name! Ulrich threatening you might be the best publicity you could get. ;)

Can someone please make a "font-naming" generator.”

Google works pretty well.

Ulrich threatening you might be the best publicity you could get.

I suspect having to pay Ulrich’s trademark attorney would negate the publicity many times over.

What about "Beastmaster"?
http://thedarkblade.com/introducing-the-glaive/

> All the good names have been taken...

Twombly once said the same, adding an implication that
many who have taken names she would have liked to use
are not worthy. I couldn't agree less, on both counts.

hhp

I have a brainstorming app called Thought Office, when I did a word association search with the word "thorn" I was amazed by all the cool sounding words, most notably those derived from plants.

datura
catechu
cockspur
firethorn
rhamn (buckthorn)
spiniform
spinule
atropine
aculeus
zareba
aculeiform

I hope this gives you some ideas.

Nick: Not technically bad per se—although it’s fairly obvious Mr. Ulrich picked the wrong instrument. It’s just that it’s really horrible. Metallica is the drop shadow of music.

Alex: I can’t see anything but the poster at this moment, but I really like the “t”. For a name, how about Heavy Duty?

Alex, when you have released fonts within the last two years called Android, Dexter, and Scion it will be difficult to make the case that any similarity to a popular band name was unintentional.

frode frank - perhaps you'd enjoy this More http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhq1uWY9wHg&feature=youtu.be

A-hah-hah, the drop shadow of music, that made me choke on my coffee. This Metallica video is actually highly enjoyable, just wait till he starts singing. He-he.

Alex, how about naming it after a specific type of metal? (Just don't take Erbium, as I've been planning to use that for a loose Erbar revival for years.)

I once watched a Metallica documentary with a couple of friends just to be polite … and then they came to the part where they write lyrics. Ouch.

>hrant—"Beastmaster" sounds great. But it's a name based on a 1982 movie, starring Marc Singer.

>frode frank—"Heavy Duty" sounds good too.

>Sindre—good idea, if I can't pick from one of these 5 names I'll start looking at metal "types". Thanks.

I put together a final list of 5 names that I really like.

If you google the first 3 there are references to other products.

Rogueblade and Heavy Duty seem safe choices.

I really like "Darkblade" because the swash ornamental serifs on the capitals resembles a dark blade or spear.

Is it okay to use "Darkblade"? General consensus, please.

What about "Botcleavage"?

hhp

>"Botcleavage", Haha... good one. Now, that's original.

Has no meaning, but sounds like "Butt Cleavage". No, I don't think so.

But, maybe something with the word "cleavage" in it. Hmmm...

Bot = robot.
(But I've been trying to be funny and it's not working.)

hhp

Oh, bot you are being funny...

Which name do you like best, out of the 5 above? Help me... please.

I'd gladly pay someone to just come up with good names for fonts. This is so hard.

Yes, it is hard to think up good names, but WTF.

Alex: “alphanumeric” titling has been well done by Autechre, but AFAIK not yet applied to typefaces.
Perhaps foundries are wary that there may be some technical glitch lying in wait (I recall the trouble that Eras once had, when some apps wouldn't recognize font names with less than five letters!)

Unobtanium (from the Avatar movie) was a brilliant groaner.
And the classic Dilithium crystals, of course.

>Good point Nick. Postscript fonts work on the "5-3-3" rule for proper naming. I can anticipate the issues with font names less and 5 characters long to begin with.

I'm working on a new family of fonts with a multitude of weights and variations.

I've studied what other type designers are utilizing for font naming schemes and solutions.

TypeName-A SER 500, Typename-B SLB 600, and so forth (A, B, etc could imply variations in body proportions, or whatever).

Question: Is this a good idea or practice? I mean using hyphens, and other such stuff?

I like the idea of using acronym to shorten and abbreviate words like "Serif" or "Slab", etc.

I'm currently trying to figure out my own strategies going forward.

It would be interesting to hear what others think on the matter.

Any ideas or suggestions welcome. Thank you.

Maybe "Hay Hook"? This type of hook was used to pull hay from a solid stack.

Haha, that bring to mind "Captain Hook". Not bad.

I wonder if Disney would complain? You see how we are running out of good names...

Can you use "Peter Pan" or "Little Mermaid". How about "Howdy Doody"... that's been off the air for a millennium.

I loved that show as a kid... It's Howdy Doody Time... it's howdy doody time!...it's howdy...

And for all those inclined to watch...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIslhp9vqqw

I think this is much ado about nothing, given the difference in spelling I think its a bunch of graphic people doing our best (terrible) legal analysis. You'll be fine to keep the font in it's original name. You'd think the smarmy requests that you "go to google" would have resulted in their having gone to google and seen just how common the use of 'Metalica' is over a variety of formats, you will be fine to keep the name.

You can see a lot of illegal stuff on Google,
that doesn't make it a good idea to not look
for a better name.

hhp

>thisanthrope...I appreciate your comment and reasoning. Many others would agree with you as well.

But, we live in a world of 'law' and even scarier...'lawyers'. Who needs the aggravation? Not me!

By the way, that's me... the 3rd kid on the left, second row of video.

Haha, just kidding. I'm not that old.

Not yet...

no, but looking on Google shows you the wide breadth of companies and products who use a similar or identical name without consequences. I'm not talking about the 15 yr. old boy in a Metallica cover band on google but the companies, awards, etc. that have been vetted by their legal departments. And like I said, I didn't bring up google, just turned it around on the people who used it.

Could you point out some of those?

hhp

Hey, I just came across an interesting link on the pros and cons of using certain names (whether they be for a company or otherwise):

http://www.thenameinspector.com/10-name-types/

I really like category 7 and 9 down the list... "made up" names like....

Bebo
Meebo
Odeo
Ookles
Plaxo
Qumana
Simpy
Zimbra (taken from a Talking Heads song based on a nonsense Dada poem)

Haha. Okay, this is going to be my "go-to" place for getting font names from now on.

Does anyone want to buy "Plaxo Bold"...oh, I really like this one... "Odeo Oblique". This is great stuff.

Hey, some other good ones..."Bix", "Kiko", "Jajah" and "Guba". I love it.

Maybe picking a font name isn't that hard after all :-)

I have heard that in some places...

1. Proper names can not be laid claim to.
2. Same with names of places and (major?) geographical features.
3. You can use your own name on your own products.

No doubt this varies between legislations.

Some towns chose their official typeface because, hey, it's got our name.

I love "Plaxo." It works with the font.

But to get back to the original debate, one of the most respected and influential alternative rock bands on the current music scene -- Radiohead -- stole their name from the title of a 1986 Talking Heads song. Catherine Wheel (the band) lifted its name from the title of a 1981 Twyla Tharp dance piece. Even the Rolling Stones riffed their name from an old Muddy Waters song. I'm sure there are many other examples of this kind of artistic "homage."

I'm not sure what the legal precedent might be if you employ the name "Metalica" for a font family that could never be confused with a metal band -- especially since you've spelled your family with one "L" and the band spells its name with two. But if you like the name, you might consider consulting an intellectual property attorney before abandoning it.

~ K.

…Catherine Wheel (the band) lifted its name from the title of a 1981 Twyla Tharp dance piece…>em>
…Even the Rolling Stones riffed their name from an old Muddy Waters song.

But they weren't neologisms, it was a cliché when Muddy used it (a rolling stone gathers no moss), and catherine wheel was a firework, among other things, and originally a saint’s martyrdom.

Metallica is an invented b(r)and name.

Metallica is an invented b(r)and name. >em>

It's also spelled differently and in a completely different market. On the other hand, "Radiohead" is an invented word, taken from a copyrighted song title.

I'm not suggesting that Mr. Kaczun is free and clear regarding the use of the word, only that similar examples exist and it may be worth exploring.

~ K.

Metallica is an invented b(r)and name.

Actually it’s the feminine adjective for “metallic” in Italian. So not a neologism either.

And about the names in the list linked by Alex: if it isn’t already clear, they’re all already used websites/webservices names.

The results of a quick Google search of Metalica -- with one "L" -- reveal an assortment of companies from all over the world. It seems to me that if there was a legitimate issue with the name, it would be with one of them -- not with a heavy metal band that spells the word differently.

Putting "metalica" into Google just gives Metallica links.
Putting "metalica -metallica" brings up pages related simply
to the fact that "metalica" means "metallic" in Castillian.

So, to repeat: please give some links revealing this "wide breadth
of companies and products who use a similar or identical name".

hhp

What this all comes down to... is...that in just a few more years... we are all screwed.

Forget about any good names... there won't be any names left. Period.

I can't even use made up names... Plaxo, Odeo, Bix, Simpy... because someone used it already for a website. Gimme a break.

Just look at some of the recent font names on myfonts.

Set Fire To The Rain, You Want To Bring Me Down, God Gave Me You... these font names sound like titles to a song.

I probably couldn't even use something like "The Big Bad Metalica Machine". Oh, it has the word like "Metallica" in it.

That's a no, no. Okay, I give up.

I'm remaking these 5 fonts and I'm going to use "Darkblade" as a name.

Good enough. Case closed.

Back to work making more fonts.

What I will call them, however, only God knows...

In response to hrant's inquiry, here are three:

http://metalica.bloombiz.com/

https://snf.stanford.edu/SNF/equipment/metalization-sputtering/metallica...

http://www.zacks.com/stock/news/59162/Tetra+Tech+Acquires+Metalica

Mr. Kaczun: whatever you call it, it's an interesting font family. Nice work.

~ K.

So, a Romanian hand-made goods co-operative formed 18 years before Metallica
existed, the nickname of a one-off, not-for-sale machine in a university basement,
and a Latin-American engineering firm (which BTW appends "Consultores")
that specialized in mining (see my previous post) constitute a "wide breadth of
companies and products who use a similar or identical name"? And honestly, how
long did it take you to dig up those lemons? Plus if your statement were even true,
then that's even less reason to use it since the potential for legal action is greater!

You know, most people (including myself) often fall into the wishful-thinking
trap that we have the freedom to name our stuff what we want, but it's simply
not true in this age.

hhp

I should point out that my original post to this thread was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

**

I’ve named a type after a movie (but not the band): Alphaville

…and after a novel (and perhaps the band): Softmachine (but “cleverly” removed the word space!).

…and after another book: Eunoia

Some typeface names where I added “-ica” to create a neologism: Morphica, Panoptica

**

Beaufort is not named after the cheese.
But “Cheese or Font” might be a good source of names.
Greater Albion, how about a taste of Wensleydale?

**

Pantera!

De Tomaso would sue you.

hhp

You know, I'm of the mind that as long as you are not developing a competing product, it's okay to use the name again.

>KCH... you are right in a way, you can find examples splattered all over the internet with companies using similar names for different products. Some people are inclined to argue no matter what. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. The lawyers control that arena.

You really think that someone is going to get confused by a 'font' with the name 'Metalica' over the band in question.

No, I don't think so. But Ulrich has the time and money to sue whenever the mood suits him.

So, I'll stay clear of that one. As I said before, who needs the aggravation. Not me!

And like Nick says... I've removed a space from a word, or concatenated two words, or named a font after a movie.

Who really cares? Apparently only the people that want to make a federal case out of it.

I wish that everyone would just apply a little more common sense, in matters of this nature.

I could understand if someone in the type business named one of their font families "Hairvetica".

That would definitely cause some confusion, and that definitely would be wrong. However funny.

Anyway, I've exhausted the topic. Time to move on. It has been an interesting discussion. Thank you all.

More likely the lawsuit coming from someone claiming to represent Dimebag Darrell and his band. Yes, @hrant, there is a hard rock band named Pantera.

At least it wasn’t Sepultura – in which case he might have had Max Cavalera hollering something distorted beyond understanding into his ear.

Or maybe Týr and getting rocked by Heathens instead?

You can also find Biohazard, Dimmu Borgir and Stryper, not to forget some of the good ones: Iron Maiden, Nazareth, Saxon, Slade... Oh dear... the CD rack is winking at me...

Respectfully and without resorting to "wishful thinking," the band spells its made up name differently than Mr Kaczun spells his made up name. The two are unrelated -- they're in different product categories. Mr. Kaczun implies no connection to the band, heavy metal or any genre of music whatsoever. With all of that said, you're certain that litigation would be inevitable? What would the basis of this suit be, that your made-up word for a product is similar to our (different) made-up word in an unrelated product category? I'm not a lawyer, but that seems a bit flimsy.

As Mr. Rowan points out, there is a band named Pantera. There's also a font named Carouselambra, an invented word that's also the title of a Led Zeppelin song. The song predates the font by several decades.

Happy holidays, everyone.

~ K.

Why not search the database below? Looks OK to use. With "Metallica" there are 56 records, many of them live, looks bad.

Or Metalika.

Here is what I thought you would see:

As I said, my original post was tongue-in-cheek, as Metallica, the band, has a reputation for litigation, which has been parodied before now.

After all, they sued Guerlain over a perfume, and won. At least, that’s what I read on the interweb.

Nick> I have always found your comments helpful, informative, entertaining and thought-provoking.

But, sometimes, especially at the top of this post, first reply... Expect a call from Mr. Ulrich's lawyer…

I almost fell off my chair.

I had no idea what you were talking about. Nor, who this 'Ulrich' guy was or anything.

It was only after I got an email from someone else offering more background information and pointing out the similarity of my font name to the band 'Matallica' did I get the full scope of the issues.

If you are going to say something... please say it in a way that is instantly understandable. I would find this more helpful. Thanks again for the heads up in the matter. Much appreciated.

You are right, I've done some checking, apparently this band does have a notorious reputation for suing anyone over it's b(r)and name.

I guess what this all comes down to, is that we all have to educate ourselves more with this sort of thing, and come to a general consensus when it's okay to incorporate someone else's trademarked 'name' into your new product, even unrelated, and when it's best to stay clear.

I certainly have learned a lot from this thread... thank you all.

There are however, no clear guidelines in the matter.

It's this 'grey area' that can get us into trouble. I think we all have been bitten by this, at one-time-or-another.

Name carefully...

> It was only after I got an email ....

You know about Google, right?

> If you are going to say something... please say
> it in a way that is instantly understandable.

Then *I* would fall off my chair out of boredom.
Obvious is dead.

hhp

Sorry Alex, wasn't trying to scare you, but the wit (such as it is) of my comment would have been lost if I had spelled it out.

BTW, props for the face, always good to see inventive, original work with nice details.

If you're worried about trademark infringement, I'd name it 'Zitzler'.

André