How about Frutiger? A bit more friendly than Highway, Clearniew, DIN, or other road sign fonts and used in airports, etc.

Or even maybe, you could have a look at the (free) fonts of Jos Buivenga (@exljbris).

HTH!

Cheers, JB

Perhaps Panno Sign or Panno Text?

http://www.boldmonday.com/en/pannosign/
http://www.boldmonday.com/en/pannotext/

Pieter

Ja, zo groot is het hier natuurlijk... ;-)
Hulde aan de Audi, BTW! Was bij jullie presentatie tijdens een nidug-meeting, some time ago.

@ihio: pardon my Dutch... I'd recommend the Pannosign Rounded over any other sign font. Completely overlooked...

HFJ Whitney, FF Unit, FF Info.

Definitely Guia:
http://opentype.info/blog/2010/07/25/guia-pedestrian-wayfinding/

Don't be ridiculous.
The norm of "signage" fonts is predicated on maximizing legibility for split-second reading by drivers.
This is a f*cking park, for God's sake, refuge from the automobile's hegemony and mankind's reductive geometry, one would hope!
And it's historic.
Slow down and smell the roses.
Albertus all caps, for instance.

Didn't the US Forest Service once use Clarendon?

That's a friendly reply, Nick. I do smell the roses now, will watch out for thorns, though. And now that I have my skates on, why not go for an elegant type like the Ruse font by Gerrit Noordzij?

See example here: http://www.teff.nl/fonts/ruse/

HTH!

Cheers, JB

Rawlinson

Thanks for all the suggestions, it was really really helpful!! I appreciate it a lot =)

JB - Panno Sign is a great one!!! (And thanks Pieter for the link as well) Definitely will give it a try, umm... what do you think about FF Netto?

riccard0 - But not sure how to get my hands on them. Are they accessible? =(

Thanks again!

You should contact the designer:
http://www.taniaraposo.com/index.php?/info/

Guia will not be released in the near future. But maybe Tânia can give you a special deal nonetheless.

I would also like to support Nicks point: You don't need designated "signage typeface" in such a case. Just use a typeface that fits your graphic design or the appearance of the park, it's buildings or whatever.
If you care about the legibility, just make sure that type size, contrast and so on are appropriate.

Does the botanical garden have an existing identity system (logo, stationary, marketing materials, etc.)? Ideally the signage should coordinate with it, as it's all part of their visual identity.

If their identity system is bad or outdated, this might be a good opportunity to update it all, not just the signs.

I’m w Nick.

Another factor to consider is the way the signs will be made. Screenprinted? Routed? Plots encapsuated? Seed in dirt? The technique used may limit your options…

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mykreeve/55319818/

.This font is of a rather cool mood but it may give you all material needed for this in just one pack.

> Slow down and smell the roses.
> Albertus all caps, for instance.

Incidentally, a modified version of Albertus was used for the signage in one of my favorite tv series, the 1960s cult classic, The Prisoner.

I concur with Nick on this as well. Pick something appropriate for the surroundings. No need to check recognition statistics for this one.

Thank you guys!!! Thanks for all the advises, otherwise I'll stuck with the signage typefaces!!

We listed a few typefaces for wayfinding and signage on FontFont.com.

Speaking of Albertus…
What about Carter Sans?
http://www.cartersans.com/

I'm with Nick on this one. I think that because people are walking around, and close to signs, that specialized way finding type is not at all needed. Much more important is being in harmony with the organic look of the garden. I think that you could even use a script face, like Olicana and have it work.

Do have a look at the awesome Japanese Garden Ornaments, and now looking at it, Kobayashi's Woodland is the kind of thing that I think would be perfect for signage in a garden.

how about 'sebastian' from Storm Type Foundry. http://www.stormtype.com/family-sebastian.html

Nice that so many agree with me.
I was a bit extreme in relating the cult of legibility signage to driving, because institutional use (hospitals, universities, government buildings) and airports and malls and subway systems all involve ergonomic signage for pedestrians. And the pedestrian precincts that so many European cities have, a concept almost non-existant in North America.

However, even if you're hurrying to make a connection or appointment, does a split second of extra glyph-processing time really make a significant difference?

It may even be that when scanning a long list of names, serifed types are best at disambiguation—e.g. in a medical building lobby when checking to see what floor your doctor is on, and faced with a bewildering array of international names and medical specialties.

Basalt by Sumner Stone was designed for signage as well (a library, also a place one navigates slowly rather than split second)

http://www.stonetypefoundry.com/basaltoverview.html

Or his Magma would also be good, me thinks.

Magma is a nice idea. It would be more formal, but still has more organic qualities than DIN, which strikes me as awfully chilly for a garden.

I was about to suggest Sumner's typefaces too. Basalt or Magma would fit nicely fot this purpose. As an added bonus, Sumner runs his own farm with plants and trees, and has even designed an ornaments typeface - Leaves and Straw - based on the plants he grows. Perhaps a traditional old style serif, rightly spaced, could work too.

While I agree with Nick in principle, Albertus would not be my first suggestion. I've always been fond of Optima for interior wayfaring signs. It works well for headline copy and isn't painful to read for larger bodies of text.

The Hunt Botanical Library on the CMU campus uses Optima for their building. That was back in the 1960s though.

You might look at both Aria – Rui Filipe Alves Abreu, 2011, or Capitolium News 2 – Gerard Unger, 2006, for something a bit more botanic looking and much newer. Oh, and both were winners in the recent Letters.2 AtypI competition.

"Basalt by Sumner Stone"

I am going to perch way out on the thinest section of a limb here and say that "Basalt" may be one of those faces that Sumner would like to revisit after years of other work--clearly, he has come a long way since. I am sure it just isn't worth his time over other more interesting current projects.

Actually, much of Stone’s recent work is an outgrowth from Basalt — Magma in particular, but also Tuff, Munc, and Numa to some extent. So, you could say that he’s been revisiting it plenty.

Yes, Kent, and again, clearly, he has come a long way since.

Are institutional typefaces chosen for ergonomic legibility or are they chosen for their perceived neutrality Nick?
I assume it is for the latter. I think there could be room for some personality in some of those institutions, but I can see how that could be a difficult thing to get institutional consensus on. And most institutions probably just don't care or haven't thought about it.

Wayfinding typefaces for directing people walking in a building have different legibility standards than highway signage. Speed and distance requirements are much less demanding for pedestrians. There are plenty of typefaces that would work fine for interiors of buildings that would be marginal for highway signage. "Perceived Neutrality" is rarely an issue for the reader, but some designers of signage may still cling to this as a desirable trait. Other designers would choose a face for sense of place or harmony with surroundings, or in an attempt to get a particular feel. For example, the original post mentions "natural, plants, life". Perhaps they are intentionally looking for a type that might reflect those words reasonably well?

Oh I absolutely agree that a park's wayfinding system can take on an organic, or humanistic, or slow, or whatever personality. And I understand that the only guidelines for their legibility are the ADA which are probably a lot less stringent than those involving moving vehicles — but I have never actually consulted any of those. I am just saying that I think institutions (not designers necessarily) are the ones that want these san serif typefaces that Nick is calling ergonomic, and I guess that they are wanting them more for their neutrality than for their legibility. But I could be wrong, it seems like I do hear "you can't read it very well" when I use anything remotely adventurous with some of my clients.

This might be a good place to mention ADA standards for the original poster. They can be helpful in determining placement of the signage as well as design.

ADA Standards for signage are more often about height and placement that is accessible by the handicapped than mandated typefaces. Sightline differences for those using wheelchairs is lower than for standing individuals. In some situations, brail or raised letters may be required for safety related signage.

"it seems like I do hear "you can't read it very well" is often an easy way for a client to say "I don't like that one" without sounding too disagreeable ;-)

I guess that they are wanting them more for their neutrality than for their legibility.

Or perhaps because it requires less effort, imagination and design.
Choose a "signage" font, set it in the standard manner, and use legibility BS to rationalize it to oneself, one's superiors and the client.
Professional expediency.

I think that this is an interesting topic — why do institutions use "signage" typefaces when they could use something that is somehow connected to their institution. So is it really lazy designers or do clients want their signage to work in some other way, be it as neutral narrator or having the highest legibility ("ergonomically")?

I mean surely these "signage" typefaces are being designed out of some sort of market need. Or have lazy designers created the market need?

Please let us know what your client ends up going for.

Not too many years ago, "signage" typefaces were the only ones available to produce signs economically. They also were sure to be there when you needed to update signs with new information. Every sign shop had helveticaclone vinyl signs and programs in house. Technology has come a long way since then. It just isn't that tough to use anything you want to make signs anymore. Perhaps both clients and designers had become so comfortable with the so-called "neutral" look that they just didn't think about other choices.

That does sound like a good reason for the prevailing attitude. And I do see a lot more interesting design happening in the Environmental Design field now, so maybe these preconceptions are being eroded.

I think the obvious answer too, is that a lot of the institutions are using the same "signage" sort of typefaces in or as their logos/brand/identities. So of course they are going to end up with it in their wayfinding signage by extension. I just heard a lecture
by Michael Bierut where he talked about designing the wayfinding for a Science Center in CT. He looked at the architecture
of the building and got all excited and ran off and had Chester Jenkins (I think that is who he said) design a whole typeface based on the angle of the architecture. When he presented it to the client, they looked phased and said "well we have to use Frutiger, that is what our identity is in."

But I am still curious about wether visitors might actually be looking for an authoritative voice in an institution's wayfinding even if the place itself is not about being efficient. The idea that the wayfinding is somehow this voice outside the place it is representing. Would the visitors at a large amusement park not trust the signs leading to the concession stands and exits if they were set in Hobo?

I guess the answer to the second part of ihio's question — Or the 'connection' doesn't matters in signages?— is, like in all design projects, that it really depends on the situation.

Rats, and I thought I was going to come to some empirical knowledge about design on this one.

Derek, interesting issues you raise. I came across this video by Paula Sher, which I found really insightful. She talks about "environmental" typography, and how it can give a building a unique sense of place, which the architecture itself doesn't. I think a garden might present some similar opportunities, though I think it would probably call for something generally more discrete than that Paula Sher has been doing with buildings.

> Would the visitors at a large amusement park not trust the signs
> leading to the concession stands and exits if they were set in Hobo?

Heck, I've been places where directional signs were scrawled in marker pen on pieces of cardboard.

Poor design choices may detract from a sign's appearance or legibility, but most users will still trust it unless it's so inappropriate that users think it's a hoax.

Thanks William, that is very helpful and insightful. I like that Paula addresses and identifies the different "parts of public space design." 1. being purely informational—wayfinding, navigation, and 2. being inspirational—giving a space it's spirit and expressing the personality of an institution. A choice of typeface and then how it is used could certainly fulfill one, or both of those parts. Or if both parts are not necessary to fulfill, then you would certainly have more options for the expressive part. Or of course just picking 2 different typefaces that go together that fulfill the 2 different needs much like designers do already when combining sans and serif faces, just with different criteria in this case.

There is a little neighborhood store near me that deals with vintage comic books and with their collectors. The signs in the crowded store were all done using Marker Felt. True, not the most readable choice of face but just perfect for the shop and its clientele :-)

A little something about sign shops and conservative design...

In the average sign shop, economy is a strong factor in regards to typography and design. Depending on the scale of the project, the competition is extremely fierce and profit margins are thin. When a graphic designer tells the client that the cost of layouts is going to be x amount of design time and x cost, that is expected. When a sign designer says that there will be x amount of design time at x cost, the client finds someone else. This is not true of every project, but it is frequent enough to be an issue. So, design time is rolled into the cost of the sign. If the design work runs over on time or you decide to use some cool font that you don't currently have, you eat the cost. If the client doesn't like it and goes with a Helvetica clone, you are out the time and money. Each change eats into your profit margin. So, most designs run to the conservative out of economy. If you are a one man operation, you can decide to be creative. If you are a wage slave, the boss is going to complain that your taking too long on the design. In large shops, which score the sweet, high profile jobs, the costs of design and new fonts can be spread over a larger invoice and is to be expected. With many interior wayfaring projects, the production costs are almost always more than the client expects because they have ignored the fact that they need a large number of signs.