Typophile

caps so big they use "descender space"

Amado

Sorry I don't know the right terminology for this, but my question is about typefaces with caps that extend below the baseline, like:

[link removed by admin, see comment below]
and, well, *shudder* http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/ef/papyrus/
(http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/crmfontco/rennie-mackintosh-renaissance/ ?)

I've got a friend whose designer will NOT set his text-based logo in mixed case, because the brand name starts with an "i". The designer is avoiding iPhone, iPad, &/c.

Say it's "iCyou" or something like that. Or, was. And we're looking for a new setting of it.

I'm thinking along the lines of: if there were a typeface with caps that act like (this) Berlin and (this) Papyrus does, in the sense of chewing up a lot of vertical space... and if said typeface had a Small Caps font...

And yet the style of the face itself were nicely gothic sans, really quite no-nonsense. Meh, that part of the requirement is loose... but something clean, normal, clear, and sans. Friendly humanist would be OK, as would geometric. Just not silly.

What do you know about this? Any typefaces for me to check out?

This ‘Berlin’ font you linked to is actually a clone of Bernhard Fashion by Lucian Bernhard.

URW++ offers such ‘DC’ styles (I assume that stands for Display Capitals) for a number of typefaces, including News Gothic, Antique Olive and Eurostile.

If this is just for a logo, you could use practically any font that has small-caps, and manually lower the cap, no?

ah yes, of course, Bernhard Fashion. I knew it was a knock-off; I had forgotten what it was a knock-off of.

I thought of the whole small-caps thing, and it's certainly one viable approach. Guess I'd be looking for something with a small x-height, so that the capital is that much bigger than the small-capital.

I've also come across fonts that are meant for monogramming. They're typically pretty specialized though.

Wondering if it isn't time to think of a different approach, such as just using a big flowery script for the "C" and keep the "i" and the "you" in a sedate sans. But that's on me.

Thanks for your help!

The technical term for this is "Titling". Thus, Times Titling is the version of Times Roman in which the capital letter fills the entire type slug, with no descender space left.

Except "Titling" fonts don't have lowercase (at least not built-in).

hhp

@hrant:
Ah. I should have looked at Bernhard Fashion, Renaissance, and Papyrus, and I would have seen that he was indeed not talking about titling faces, but about typefaces in which the uppercase letters extended below the baseline of the lowercase.

I'm not aware of a specific technical term for that, either.

Any digital fonts where the vertical metrics reflect this?

How can there be more than one baseline?

hhp

See Astoria Titling or Crane Titling, both by Nick Curtis.

@frode frank:
Any digital fonts where the vertical metrics reflect this?

@hrant:
How can there be more than one baseline?

In other words, to avoid confusing the innocent and naïve, while it may be true that in such a font, all the capital letters descend below the baseline (for the small letters) by the same amount, thus establishing, in effect, a second baseline, for the purpose of the vertical metrics of the font, there can only be one position that is presented externally as the "baseline" for lining up characters of that font with other fonts.

Now, in fact, I certainly could imagine a font format that does allow a second "caps baseline" to be associated with a font, and for there to be some complicated way to specify that "oh, by the way, on this line where I'm mixing these two typefaces, I'm using all caps, so please align the letters by their caps baselines rather than their regular baselines".

And font metrics on Open Type are complicated enough that I wouldn't guarantee that we don't already have this feature.

Now I've checked. We don't have it yet. However, as four lowercase letters make a baseline tag, all that has to be done is for someone to register a new baseline tag with Microsoft for this feature to become available.

Well, the feature also has to be supported by software in a meaningful way. I don't think that is likely to happen, even if the relevant baseline tag(s) somehow got added to the specs.

I was thinking more along the lines of a caps only face with little or no descender space. Tight leading straight out of the box.

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