Give us your list of 20+ years ago designers so we know where you're setting the bar.

I have done:

Hermann Zapf
Edward Benguiat
Adrian Frutiger
Matthew Carter
Kris Holmes
Erik Spiekermann
Gerard Unger
Edward Johnston
Eric Gill
Herb Lubalin
Max Miedinger
Paul Renner

You might also want to define what you mean by success:
- wide use
- awards
- durability
- profitable
- typographic excellence
-used by "good" typographers

And what do you mean by sans?

For instance, Ray Larabie's Neuropol was much used as a free font, but is a quirky rounded techno face, and such artefacts of the rave scene (like the psychedelic scene earlier) have never received much critical or academic acclaim. Although it was used for the Torino Olympics.

Well initially i think i was thinking more of wide use as the success, but if anyone knows what kind of money a typeface has made then that would be good too.

But i think wide use and being used by good/well known typographers and graphic designers will be a good definition for the kind of success i am looking for.

I haven't really decided on a specific style of sans, i am just trying to get some basic information before refining it more once i know what i want to focus on.

Well, I think you'd have to consider including Martin Majoor (Scala Sans), David Berlow (Bureau Grot), Tobias Frere-Jones (Gotham), Cyrus Highsmith (Antenna), and Christian Schwartz (Neutraface) on that list.

Thanks i will take a look at them.

Robert Slimbach and Carol Twombly (Myriad)?

Edward Johnston
Eric Gill
Herb Lubalin
Max Miedinger
Paul Renner

They are highly unlikely to have made anything in the last 20 years....

What is successful? It is hard to define by somthing like sales only. Some names I have to think of are:

Gerard Unger
Jos Buivenga
Tobias Frere-Jones and Jonathan Hoefler
Cyrus Highsmith
Sumner Stone
Evert Bloemsma
Akira Kobayashi

my lecturer wants more recent guys even though she could not even name any

For what subject is she gaining salary as a lecturer?

@Queneau - I know they wouldn't have, they are the people i had selected before my lecturer asked me to find more recent and younger type designers (and not dead).

@Andreas - She is a Graphic Design lecturer, i know it is bad, she said she has been spending more time doing piano lessons then looking at type designers.

i was thinking more of wide use as the success,

Vince Connare

I would consider anyone making a living as a type designer during the last 10-20 years as successful. Perhaps not famous, but definitely successful. And as my wife is fond of saying. "Famous type designer? Isn't that an oxymoron?"

Thanks for all the suggestions, will take a look through them now.

There are a number of books themed on type designers, e.g.

http://tdc.org/tdc/archives/2134

http://www.amazon.com/Z-Type-Designers-Neil-Macmillan/dp/0300111517

http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Characters-Interviews-Font-Designers/dp/9...

> (and not dead)

Out of your original list, I count 7 out of 12 who are still alive. And those same have all made successful typefaces within the last 20 years. What more does your lecturer want?

I suspect she’d have a harder time making as current a list for composers of classical piano pieces. ;-)

@Kentlew - Yeah i know, i chose those type designers because they are some of the more 'important' type designers, but she just said that they are all ancient. Oh well, the people which have been mentioned here have helped me get a bit of a younger group together.

Zuzana Licko.

These are people in this very thread that you might consider, such as Nick Shinn -- see his Sense and Sensibility typefaces on MyFonts. They were used in Canada's best national newspaper.

Otherwise, I would start by visiting foundry websites. Example: www.vllg.com. Village is sort of a co-operative agreement amongst foundries, so you can go from there to, say, klim.co.nz. Kris Sowersby of Klim type won a Young Guns prize, from the Art Directors Club.

http://www.adcyoungguns.org/enter/winners8/?id=103

Don't forget Philip Bouwsma

Who made the Brush Script? Robert E. Smith

I'd say Jos Buivenga belongs on such a list: the Fontins, the Museos, Calluna, and others.

To the ones already mentioned, I would add Luc(as) de Groot and Jean Francois Porchez, and maybe Ale Paul and http://new.myfonts.com/newsletters/cc/

I would definitely add Xavier Dupré and Jeremy Tankard, and second Porchez, de Groot, Frere-Jones, Twombly, Hoefler, Schwarz... If you really want very modern names, look at the results of TDC2 over the past few years.

Fred Smeijers' Sansa
Albert-Jan Pool's FF Din
Just van Rossum & Erik van Blokland's Beowolf Sans

How could I forget Neville Brody and Jonathan Barnbrook?

The list continues:

Barry Deck's Template Gothic and Arbitrary

František Štorm (www.stormtype.com) and Tomáš Brousil (www.suitcasetype.com). Both of them have created many successful fonts, like JohnSans, or Gloriola, etc.

@Lukewilde: Where do you study and in what program/year are you?

I have to say that this has been THE MOST Entertaining thread I have ever read on typophile. It has given me so much insight into who and what is important to this community. Thank you sooooooo.... much. You have no idea!

Jean Paul, based on the cited examples all the folks you've listed are in the dead/old guys category, no?

@Sii: Eh, I don't think any are deceased and it depends what you call 'old'. Smeijers is born in 1961, Pool in '60, Van Rossum in '66, Van Blokland in '67, Brody in '57, Barnbrook in '66 and Deck in '62. Their average age is about 47. I wouldn't say that's old. I think the older typedesigners get, their work improves (Unger: 1942; Frutiger: 1928) I myself have just a few years to go to reach their average age, and I don't feel old ;-)

Advertisers in the present edition of Eye:

Commercial Type
Hoefler & Frere-Jones
Mark Simonson Studio
Process Type Foundry
Prologue
Terminal Design
The Chank Company
Village Type & Design
Jeremy Tankard Typography
Newlyn

Ads run from £600 to £2000, so a foundry has to be quite "successful" to participate.

"...I think the older typedesigners get, their work improves (Unger: 1942; Frutiger: 1928)"

I have achieved their age (born Jan. 1944) but not their experience. I have only been designing type for 5 years and was a graphic designer for 45 years. I can safely say that I have far to go to achieve their success :-)

I'm with James: if you make a living designing type and don't have to supplement your income with other kinds of work (e.g. graphic design, teaching), then that seems to me the best measure of successfulness as a type designer. [There are people who have designed commercially successful fonts, but whose principle business is not type design, so I think you need to make a distinction between successful products and successful careers.]

My mother thinks I'm successful.

"My mother thinks I'm successful."

My mother thinks the same!
But she doesn't know what I do and I don't even try to explain to her :-)

My mother thinks John is successful too :-)

>Eh, I don't think any are deceased and it depends what you call 'old'.

This was in reference to the initial post... "I have all the older more obvious designers" - most of the designs you mention are 20+ years old?

@Sii: Sansa was released in 2001, FF Din in 1995, Brody's FF World in 1993, Barnbrook's Prior Sans in 2003, Template Gothic and Arbitrary in '90. Not sure about BeoSans, but the others are certainly no older then 20 years.

...perhaps not all exactly Sans but Display...

Thanks a lot for the mass of replies, really helpful suggestions.

@Christopher Dean: I am studying Graphic design and in my last year now.

I have a new question i wondered if some of you could give your opinions on, What typeface would you say you associate with the UK, would be best if it is because you have seen it used in the UK and for that reason you associate the typeface with the UK. Of course if there are any other reasons for the typeface to remind you of the UK, then they will be really helpful also.

There have been many Typophile threads on type and nationalism.
Look them up, or start a new one (perish the thought).

Thanks, i just looked through a few which looked like what i am looking for, and they have have now made me doubt the subject/area of research might not be as good/interesting as i thought earlier when talking with a lecturer.

The idea came around because i was going to compare Johnston's typeface with 10 or so typefaces which have been created recently, but i have been worried that this won't have enough depth to it and wasn't really sure in what direction to take it, and how to actually compare them in a not so obvious way.

Anyone have any suggestions of how i can look into comparing the typefaces more, or how i could compare them? This project is taking forever to get stuck in to, so i would really appreciate any suggestions, whether to stick with the comparing typefaces or try the type that reminds people of the UK idea.

Sorry for asking this kind of question here, but i haven't had too much luck anywhere else.

Have you read Johnston's Underground Type by Justin Howes?
That should give you some ideas.

You could also compare Johnson's original drawings to old signage, old printed material (eg LT posters), and digital types.
There are significant differences between ITC Johnston and P22's version. Why?

Johnston drew some variants of "g" that did not take, similar to Renner's Futura.
And so on.

That narrows the focus, but still gives you plenty of scope to go deep.

The particular reveals the universal, which is better than a broad overview with sweeping generalizations.

Yes i have that book in front of me now, thank you for the suggestions, hopefully i will be able to get stuck into it more, picked out some interesting things from the book yesterday which would be good to include.

I was surprised that my lecturers thought Eric Gill was before Johnston, just because Gill Sans is more well known, thought graphic design tutors would know about that kind of thing.

Luकe Wilde: I have a new question i wondered if some of you could give your opinions on, What typeface would you say you associate with the Uक, would be best if it is because you have seen it used in the Uक and for that reason you associate the typeface with the Uक. Of course if there are any other reasons for the typeface to remind you of the Uक, then they will be really helpful also.

This is a coincidence. A few days ago I came across Rail Alphabet typeface by Margaret Calvert and it's British use, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Alphabet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Calvert

p.s. If anyone can tell me where to contact this font designer to tweek the letter k/K to क/क.

A tweek is a slight alteration. You want a complete redo.

What is that character supposed to be BTW? - ( I know it's supposed to be a K/k) but it just doesn't fit in at all.

IIRC, some Random Grand High Poobah declared the 'k' to be obsolete and should be replaeced with a Devanagari (I think) glyph For The Greater Good.

James Montalbano (ClearviewHwy / Clearview Text )
Joshua Darden (Freight Sans, Omnes Pro)
Dennis Pasternak (Maiandra)