I'm not sure about that 'p' opening with the gap; it tends to be a saccation (stopping eye movement) with that gap from the stem. And '20' is way too tight in that circle, and they seem too thin. Does that font have lower case numbers?

Apart from those, the overall look is friendly and inviting.

Thanks Tomi. The p is this way in the typeface and I like it this way. It doesn't have lowercase numbers. I just made the numbers lowercase by scaling them down, which, unfortunately, also made them thinner. My problem is that I don't want the circle to get any bigger than this, but I want 20 to align with the x-height. Any suggestions?

Ask someone that knows how to draw type to customize it to your liking.

With all due respect, other than the typographic issues pointed out here thoroughly by Tomi, I'd also like to point out that it looks like a wine label. Red-wine-purple. The calligraphic type. I understand that you like this, just thought I'd put it out there. It's a nice looking identity, just putting another perspective on it.

I agree. It speaks of wine to me.

The original version was black, but I thought that might look a bit depressed, which is not a good idea for them. I thought this was a nice warm colour, but I have to agree with you. I'll change it. Any suggestions?

@Frode Frank: I believe I know how to draw type myself. If you've seen my expletus in the critique forum you might want to disagree, your welcome to do so.

Thanks for your comments!

update. I decided that a happier colour is better.

@1996: Forgive me, I just didn't connect the dots! Your response to Tomi implied to me you didn't know how to add weights to the numbers, hence my suggestion. Fixing the weight issue and the spacing (condensed numbers?) might be a solution, but I'm not sure how well that'll work for you. I'm afraid the whole thing might be too unbalanced in the first place.

Do you think the latest version still isn't good, or did you post your comment without checking the update?

btw: I didn't mean to offend you. "Forgive me" Nothing to forgive.

Yes, the circle makes the right side very heavy.

Maybe I should make the circle a line, but I'll weight what the pitcher says first.

I like Livory, have you tried something in pink? do you know the expression "pink cloud"

Orozco: "Pink cloud"... love that.

The Livory serif is handsome, but it still seems a bit aloof to me for something that is supposed to be inviting and familiar. Have you looked at sans?

Orange is a nice choice, too. But Orozco's idea is quite smart and could make a good case with the client. I don't mind the circle, but it certainly isn't doing much for balance.

Just a couple of thoughts...take them for a grain of salt.

@ sannorozco: No I don't. Although it's creative thinking I never use this sort of things in logo's. Most people in holland don't know what 'pink cloud' means so it would get quite meaningless. Thanks anyway.

@ ebspoony: I think Livory IS inviting and familiar. Every corner has been made round. It gives me the feeling as if coming home from a cold winters day and sitting in front of a nice warm fire, but maybe that's just me.

Most people in holland don't know what 'pink cloud' means so it would get quite meaningless. Thanks anyway.

I'd argue that most people in Holland aren't your audience. Recovering addicts in Holland are your audience, and they are also your clients. I don't know anything about addiction treatment in Holland, but in Germany there's even a song by an artist called Blossom (Blümchen), "Pink Cloud" ("Rosa Wolke," a bad little techno number, but the lyrics seem pretty clearly about the addiction recovery denial phenomenon to me, in either tongue).

You seem to know what you want, and I applaud that, but I'd still tell you the same. Livory is a handsome oldstyle face. But the invitation it sends to me is one from authority, rather than from a peer. Just things to consider. There are messages in our fonts...!

Good luck with the client!

"Livory is a handsome oldstyle face. But the invitation it sends to me is one from authority, rather than from a peer."
Yes, I agree. I've been looking at this a few times and while it does look nice, the «tone» seems slightly off for the audience and situation you're communicating in. Consider that communication doesn't only involve what is being said and how the tone/voice feels to yourself, but there's also the question of who is speaking to whom (and how those people are made to feel). In the situation you describe, I'd also expect something that communicates more from peer to peer. Livory is beautiful, but it does evoke the old age of book wisdom, a printed æsthetic, where knowledge – and help – was a much more hierarchical and authoritarian affair. This tone of «authority» is one you would exactly want to avoid, I guess – it might feel ever so slightly patronizing (I'm assuming your target audience might be very sensitive to how their situation is presented or referred to). You need something that communicates at eye level; something that's fresher and straighter without being cold, something honest and strong, not this artistic/«bookish» and soft. Warmth is good, but not condescending warmth – warmth at eye level.

On a more «surface» level, one thing that makes me find Livory a wrong choice in this context is that if you look at the actual shapes of the characters, it seems sad rather than strong. There are a lot of «frowning» shapes. The top-left instrokes of the "p", "n", and "r" all droop down. The opening of the "p" also makes it look sad to me. The overall softness (which looks eroded, like something was washed away) says everything but freshness, strength, youth, and being able to rebound from something that's as hard to overcome as addiction.

In case I sound harsh: I like the font too, but I'm trying to look past my own taste and think into what it needs to communicate in this case, and I think it's miscast, like a good actor in the wrong role.

BTW, what's with the railway metaphor? Is that important to the client, should it be played off? (You don't need to draw a train icon, but maybe use a font that could be used in railway signage or something?)

@1996type I think most people in addiction recovery is familiar with the term, and it's great you know exactly what you want to achieve. Also maybe you can experiment with another type style, like this http://erlikoslo.wordpress.com/, it's a magazine runned by addicts in recovery, am I right Frode?

finally, I'd love to see your final result!

@ebspoony thanks!

@santiago: Yes. In fact, I know a guy who sells these. I wouldn’t look to it for good design though. They started out really good, but now it just looks amateurish. Big Issue is a similar project in the UK.

I don't want to sound as if I'm giving up, but at this point it seems as if I have basically nothing and should start all over again from the start. I guess I'll take a few days to think about it. The whole logo had little content from the beginning.

Jasper,
Almost all health organizations in the Netherlands use a 'friendly' Sans Serif. I'm not saying that it's a good choice, but that's the way it is.

@nina; In Rotterdam there was such a program called "Perron 0", near or at the reailway station.

@frode yes I remember when I was there, I have a few of them, for me the typo has the music's mood that normally addicts are surrounded, I mean the "=oslo" typo

I don't want to sound as if I'm giving up, but at this point it seems as if I have basically nothing and should start all over again from the start. I guess I'll take a few days to think about it. The whole logo had little content from the beginning.

Don't be afraid to go back to the drawing board. It's quite a complicated organisation to sum up in a logo. For this reason I think your interpretation of warmth and approachability is appropriate. Now you must choose how to communicate these ideas. Beyond emotive choices it is a graphic exercise, weight, proportion, relationship, essentially creating a kind of neatness or harmony.

Consider the regular demands of a logo; must work at different scales, possibly in black only.

thanks 1985. Though simple it may be, it's a great help.

I’ve found good logos to be some of the hardest things to create, and the most time consuming part of it the idea process.

Yes indeed Frode, I didn't mean to put disproportionate emphasis on the drawing, the idea must be there too. Both components can take time.

I think it is a common misconception that a logo must sum up an organisation entirely, or communicate a literal summary, I certainly fall into this trap myself. That's why I think the idea here can be as simple as approachability and this can be achieved with type and colour.

strong I don't want to sound as if I'm giving up… You are fourteen years old, so you'll have a lifetime to to get it right. So don't give up.

Live like there is no tomorrow all the same :-)

I'd suggest that it looks too formal for what the organisation does... it speaks to me of financial planning, but it doesn't fit well with the intended audience. I actually thought it looked similar to that great serif face used by the Dutch Government, and while being a nice font, doesn't seem right for the clients.

(Perhaps the logo could be a picture of Guus Meeuwis' face!)