Cambria?

I have a question: does hinting effect fonts displayed in a PDF document?

does hinting effect fonts displayed in a PDF document?

Yes. Acrobat uses Adobe's CoolType renderer, rather than system rasterisers, so what you get in PDF is outlines and hints as interpreted by CoolType, which will differ from how the same fonts are rendered by the OS in other applications.

Hi John,
Thank you for your Cambria suggestion. I think I prefer it, but it feels a little tall and thin, like all the letters are standing upright to attention! It makes me feel a little tense! I'm looking for something that feels more relaxing. Palatino makes me feel like I'm reading a tome rather than a modern (yet intellectual) piece.

Are there any fonts along similar lines? I had a look at FF Scala, but then my wallet hurt :)

Thank you for the help so far!

I'm using Constantia to write my CS homeworks. However, I'm a typography newbie too :)

By the way, if you are going to use a lot of math formulas, you might want to decide your math font first: Free Math Font Survey.

Constantia was going to be my second suggestion. Cambria works better as a screen font, although both typefaces were designed to look good with Microsoft's ClearType rendering system, but Constantia is a warmer text face and sets very well for print.

Note that if you are going to be setting math equations, the Cambria family includes Cambria Math, which is built to work with the new math handler in Word 2007. So this is another reason why you might consider Cambria.

Oh, this is perfect! Thank you both! It's that relaxed font I was going for. Wonderful!

I use LaTeX to typeset (with XeTeX so I have access to the fonts on my Mac), and right now the template uses Palatino to typeset math. I am expecting this will look somewhat compatible, but I am sure I can find a complementary font to Constantia that will work.

I'm not a maths guy, so I prefer my text to look perfect than my math, so I'll definitely make it work.

Thank you both once again, I'm very pleased with the results.

You mention LaTeX, so I'll throw out either Minion or Utopia as possibilities. Both have good LaTeX math support, and Utopia seems well-suited for on-screen reading. I don't know that either recommendation is particularly tied to CS, but I have used both for mathematical writing. I have a soft spot in my heart for Charter as well, and it also displays well on-screen. Charter doesn't seem elegant to me, and perhaps it's not suited to a dissertation that wants a more formal feel, but I do like the clean and open feeling it has. Perhaps it would mix well with code snippets, etc.

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Hmm, now I definitely have something to think about. Utopia is a pretty font... I will probably end up printing both out and sticking them on my cube wall with their names written on the back, and see which one I gravitate to, then have the big reveal at the end :)

Thanks Scott!

@John: But a PDF could be viewed in another application, something that is not from Adobe. What happens then?

I’m sorry for hijacking the thread, but the answer to my question determines what I’d suggest as a text font. Constantia and Cambria are both optimized and hinted for Cleartype, and are probably good options (for screen at least).

Frode: What happens then?

You get whatever rendering that application is using. It might be a system renderer, or it might be FreeType. It it unlikely to be something custom, particular to the application, but that is also a possibility. The only renderer I am aware of that deliberately ignores all hints is Apple's Quartz renderer.

>The only renderer I am aware of that deliberately ignores all hints is Apple's Quartz renderer.

Wake up! Get the facts straight! I've corrected this in 9 threads now... 9.

Cheers!

go on David, make it a round number.

Please provide a link to one of those corrections, David, so I know which aspect of this you're talking about. If you're referring to Quartz retaining hints at small sizes, that doesn't contradict what I wrote, which is that Quartz is the only renderer I am aware of that deliberately ignores all hints, even if it only does so at most sizes. Sure, I could have been more precise, but I was answering Frode's question.

So — basically — if your typeface is going to be viewed on screen, your best bet is a typeface that is hinted to preform well on screens with low resolution. Have a look at the Web Fontfonts. They have a number of good serifs, amongs them Celeste might be the most bookish. Cambria and Constantia are also hinted for the screen. Monotype also have a section of fonts (although quite a few of them are very spindly) classified under the label Enchanced Screen Quality, amongst them Sabon and Plantin – the latter might be too magazine-ish for what you want.

He is on a Mac, so am I, and Utopia is my preferred choice for maths. I first call \usepackage{fourier} to get the Fourier-GUTenberg Utopia based math font and then a package to use Utopia Std (for the time being, I use pdflatex and a package I installed with otfinst applied to the Utopia Std Opticals I got from the Adobe Type Classics)

Forgive me, I didn’t consider the necessary character set. Disregard my suggestions, but keep the rendering issue in mind for Windows users!

It is possible to use a math font based on Minion or Utopia and then use another font for text; for instance, one can call the MinionPro package with the onlymath option so as to get all the necessary symbol characters and the Minion letters for the formulas, and then use Arno for text. I tried that and the result was quite nice till I got some indexed variable immediately followed by an Arno comma that, at least on the screen, almost seemed to clash with the lower index. When there is some computer stuff, there is often also the need for a non proportional font that fits. Finding the right mix is not always easy and depends a lot on the text. For me, when in doubt, use... Utopia for body text, but I like using other fonts with XeLaTeX when nothing clashes.

Hi guys, thanks for the discussion here.

Utopia does come with the math fonts, but I think the Palatino set math fonts with Constantia look pretty nice too.

I uploaded two PDFs of example output: Utopia and Constantia.

I think Constantia works better zoomed further out, and Utopia better further in. I also think Constantia looks slightly better printed.

I think you can flip a coin, safe in the knowledge wherever it lands, it'll look great.

I may go for Utopia because it's more portable and easy to put into LaTeX (doesn't have the XeTeX dependency).

Thanks everyone!

I see from the Constantia example - which impresses me favorably, I think that you have indeed made an excellent choice of face - that you're still using the same standard TeX monospaced face that one encounters in many documents using (the current improved form of) Computer Modern.

I would be inclined to go with either a better imitation of a classic typewriter face, or with Courier, in your position, if I could, and if a monospaced face played a significant role in the document.

Now don't get me wrong... I am delighted that this user found font matches for their charming document via live meta data support. ;)

JH> Sure, I could have been more precise, but I was answering Frode's question.

I'm not sure... ClearType does deliberately ignore all hints if it's told to, at both ends of the resolution spectrum. You know this, right?

Cheers!

ClearType does deliberately ignore all hints if it's told to

Sure, if it's told to, but I assumed Frode was looking for difference potential between renderers encountering fonts that a) have hinting and b) whose gasp table have the hinting turned on for the given size.

Quadibloc: This is a good point! I do expect that there will be some typewriter text in the final document, and I'll make sure to specify one. It looks like the package with Utopia overrides the Computer Modern default.

I'll play around and see which one looks nicest. I use Consolas for my editing, but that's really only meant for screen at larger font sizes I think. Monoco looks bad when you go above 11 pt. Bitstream Vera Mono is pretty good on screen and printed, so I might settle on that. It's one of those things where I think it really depends on what the rest of the document is going to look like in order to find a font that fits.

Thanks for the catch!

I saw this thread and decided to add my two cents to this cauldron of suggestions (even though Lewisham appear to have made his mind up).

> I am not adverse to Palatino particuarly, but something feels not quite right about it, and I can't put my finger on it. The thesis needs to look great on screen and in print (perhaps more so on screen, as I expect that's how most people will read it), and Palatino seems to do that.

How about using Aldus Nova? The com version of Aldus is specifically designed for display work (what Linotype call XSF). Aldus (for text) is to my eyes the better Palatino, and Aldus nova is its definitive digital incarnation. If you use Aldus you could use Palatino as an auxiliary font for the math work and for the display sizes.

I think that both Palatino and Aldus work very well for CS work. I have read a lot of published and unpublished CS related work set in various forms of Palatino, and it appears to me that this seemingly unlikely marriage between typeface and subject matter works quite well…

If on the other hand, you want to go for a more neutral (yet highly readable) look, I would consider using DTL Documenta. Although admittedly, it may literally dissolve your wallet...