I should add that my purpose is to have a set of characters that would marry harmoniously and modestly with a solid old-style or transitional font, or a modern text font based thereon. Almost all available astrological characters are either ruler-and-compass stick figures, clumsy glyphs drawn with no feeling for type forms, or self-indulgent fancy inventions. Those that are truly elegant lack many necessary characters.

Those that are truly elegant lack many necessary characters.

Could you give us some samples?
Maybe some of them could be extended without the need to start all from scratch.

I know many astrological and astronomical symbols exist in Unicode, mostly in the 2600-260D and 263D-2653 ranges. Are there any others that should be included?

riccard0: Zapf made elegant planet and sign symbols to go with Palatino. Many symbols are missing and a couple should be reworked but, anyway, I am hoping for a set that would be more consistent with a good workhorse typeface - one that could fill a heavy textbook without tiring the reader (for which Palatino is ever so slightly too mannered imo). There are beautiful and valid models in Renaissance books and even in Hellenistic manuscripts, but of course that is not what you mean.

I have a workhorse or two in mind but I hesitate to start with that idea when I am asking if someone will want to work with me. There is also the question of how transferable to other contexts a set of symbols could/should be - I have no clue.

cuttlefish: You are thinking of the Unicode astrological symbols listed in Wikipedia? The set is almost complete (the main lacuna is a complete and consistent set of 36-degree aspects) but the execution is ghastly and in a few cases absurd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_symbols

(And don't take their explanations of the symbols too seriously!)

By the way, the order and code assignments of astrological symbols I have seen vary from one design to the next. I suppose it doesn't matter, though it might be clever to adopt the Unicode range. At this point it's the least of my worries.

The Wikipedia page does hit on some symbols that are outside of the Miscellaneous Symbols range:http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2600.pdf, but most of them are in there.

What additional symbols are needed to complete the list shown on the Wikipedia page?

(Thanks for reminding me that I need to update my copies of the code charts.)

Have you seen Andreas Stötzner's Andron? It covers so many signs & symbols that I'm thinking it might have the coverage you need, or very close to it.
This shows its character set for the 2600 Miscellaneous Symbols block and surroundings (normal view for the Regular, mouseover for Italic):
http://www.signographie.de/cms/front_content.php?idart=222

Das Zeichenbuch (The Book of Signs) by Rudolf Koch contains many astrological symbols drawn with a calligraphic touch, although I think they are limited to the basic ones.

> The set is almost complete (the main lacuna is a complete and consistent set of 36-degree aspects)

I've been doing a web search, and the only symbol I've found for the quintile is a letter Q used as a symbol; for the decile (or semiquintile) a letter D, and for the biquintile, bQ.

cuttlefish: You see, I am really ignorant. Is this code list a scheme for typographers to observe with their own designs, or are the symbols in some way official? Ah, I notice this: "The shapes of the reference glyphs used in these code charts are not prescriptive. Considerable variation is to be expected in actual fonts." Phew! ...because some of these executions are really bad. And some missing aspects and variations would have to replace other items such as the hammer and sickle.

altaira: That is a great way to display a font, with mouseover for italics. The set is almost complete but not very successful imo.

Jongseong: I like Koch's signs very much - they can be blown up, framed, and admired on a wall. But their faux-primitive style is too distracting for a font meant to accompany text.

quadibloc: Yes, Q seems to be what people use for the quintile. The others are improvisations. I have an idea for a rational design that would represent the entire series with minor but easily learned differentiations - including the tredecile (108°) which everyone seems to ignore.

Maybe I'm too critical to collaborate with anyone, should stop kvetching and just do this myself. But to misquote Groucho Marx, I wouldn't approve of anything I could do.

The general point of Unicode is to assign a number to every written mark used in human language. These numbers are useful in developing fonts among many other applications. The specific design in the code charts is not prescriptive, but the meaning generally is, e.g.: the snowman at U+2603 could be drawn differently but still recognizably be a snowman; you're not supposed to put just any random symbol in that spot.

You can submit a request to add glyphs that you feel necessary to complete the astrological/astronomical symbol group to the Unicode consortium, but that can be a complicated process. http://www.unicode.org/pending/proposals.html

Of course, that doesn't get you the font that you need in short order, a very different question indeed.

You see, I am really ignorant. Is this code list a scheme for typographers to observe with their own designs, or are the symbols in some way official? Ah, I notice this: "The shapes of the reference glyphs used in these code charts are not prescriptive. Considerable variation is to be expected in actual fonts." Phew! ...because some of these executions are really bad. And some missing aspects and variations would have to replace other items such as the hammer and sickle.

--

Unicode is a standard for which character has what code, just like ASCII. ASCII just says that the number 64 stands for the uppercase letter A, not whether that A is in Courier or Times Roman. And, in fact, the Unicode document warns people against stealing the typefaces they were graciously allowed to use to print the thing as a way to create a Unicode typeface.

ISO 8858-1, the 8-bit code that added accented characters to the "high bit" range, was "official", but not compulsory. One could put Japanese katakana in the high bit range instead, or different accented letters to support Hungarian and certain other languages. Even ASCII had "national use" positions.

To be Unicode-compliant, you would not replace the hammer and sickle with the biquintile... instead, you would put the biquintile 'way up in the "private use area". To be usable on some older systems, you might prefer to make an 8-bit font, not a Unicode font, and replace the accented letters by the aspects instead.

@AxelHarvey: Judging by your posts, I think I know and have what you are looking for, that is, at least the symbols which are included in the Unicode chart, but it should not be too difficult to design a couple of more – based on the already existing ones, to preserve the stylistic unity and the ’weight’ – and put them somewhere in the PUA, so they can be accessed even in the non-OT-savvy text appliances, such as Word, for instance. As for the style, they are part of a Garaldesque bookish font I’m working on, which is what you seem to prefer anyway, so that’s already one thing we have in common; and the other being that I’m also too critical to collaborate with anyone – well, it can’t go wrong, can it?

Perhaps we should get in touch outside this forum, as there seems not to be too much interest for your proposal anyway; only, I don’t know how it’s done, there being, understandably, no e-mail addresses here, and this is the very first time I take part in these jolly ado’s (which I silently relish for some years now).

Greetings, everyone.

I don’t know how it’s done

http://typophile.com/user/51973/contact
http://typophile.com/user/55181/contact

Much obliged, riccard0.

Mr. Harvey and others,

I got a bit confused over the mixing up UC coverage, font design and font delivery issues in this discussion. What is it what you actually require?

With regard to Andron, I would be obliged if you could clarify what “not very successful” means.

By the way, an entire new astrological block with about 116 characters will be introduced to the next version of Unicode.

Regards, A.St.

Sorry for my absence - it's been hectic (including a furnace breakdown now fixed).

As for the Andron astrological characters there are two types of consideration. First, there are what I would call "substantive form" issues which have to do with preferences and taste, so there one's decisions are as good as anyone else's. For example I would prefer a Z shape for Jupiter rather than a curve for historical and symbolic reasons, but that is a personal matter.

Then there are "execution" issues. For example, I find there are too many serifs, and they are too strong. Here I think one's inspiration should be numerals. The Andron digits 0 to 9 - which I like - have serifs on the 1, what might be called half-serifs on the 2, 4, 5, and 7 (only one on each), and a discreet finishing tick at the top of 3 (if I am seeing correctly). The same restraint should apply to astrological symbols. As it is there are right-angled full serifs on the Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Virgo, Scorpio, Sagittarius, and Capricorn glyphs, and I find them annoying. The angled half-serifs, as on the Libra glyph and the lower end of the outer vertical strokes of Uranus, are fine. The Neptune glyph has three harpoon barbs instead of serifs. I know this is a reference to Neptune's trident and it is often done that way, but to me it is sliding from typography towards illustration.

All the above is "sous toute réserve" since I feel like a snail criticizing a football team. I can't comment on the weight and shading because I have not seen the astro characters blended with a block of text.

The new 116-character Unicode block is good news.

I honour your detailed discussion of design details!

First, on this page (scroll down a bit) everyone can see an actual piece of text (by I. Newton) which contains astrological and measurement signs.

This is it what we are talking about:

The *coining* (dt. Ausprägung) – or “execution” – of those signs is a matter which indeed raises some questions, for me too. Is it about taste only – or can justified decisions be made here?

I would prefer a Z shape for Jupiter rather than a curve for historical and symbolic reasons, but that is a personal matter.
– if there are historical and symbolic reasons for this preference, this is certainly not a matter of mere personal taste. I know both the pointed and the rounded Jupiter sign and found the latter more appropriate to accompany a Venetian-style font, mostly from my knowlegde of old prints. But if you have deeper insights in the nature of that sign I would be obliged to learn about it.

… too many serifs, and they are too strong. Here I think one's inspiration should be numerals
Maybe you’re right with this, maybe not. The Venus often gets serifed crossbars which I omitted. Maybe the Jupiter and the Sagittarius would do with less as well. But the Uranus and Pluto signs definitely relate to Latin Capitals and an ‘archaeological’ glyph shaping ought to make this visible, in my opinion. (You’ll notice a second Pluto glyph, I’m not entirely happy with both).

The Neptune glyph has three harpoon barbs instead of serifs. I know this is a reference to Neptune's trident and it is often done that way, but to me it is sliding from typography towards illustration.
– the path you’re sliding on is inherent in typography! You can’t escape. – What are you then to make of the arrow point of the Mars? Also too illustrative? At least my Neptun glyphs have no serifs on the crossbars, which you can see often elsewhere.

As for the Virgo I know of an interpretation as a kind of m_r ligature (“Maria”), therefore the resemblance of the Latin m. The same element in the Scorpio sign, I don’t know of any such interpretation as yet. But for reasons of visual consistency the respective parts of both glyph have to match.

Twelve sixpacks of fine beer to him or her who writes a profound historical-typographical survey upon “The shapes of astrological signs”.
(– Or is it existing already??)

(And good luck with your furnace! Mine one is lousy too.)
A. St.

Annie S.D. Maunder (1868–1947), The Origin of the Symbols of the Planets. “The Observatory” 57 (1934): 238–247. [Bibcode 1934Obs....57..238M]

@AxelHarvey — Did you find someone to collaborate with?

I'm curious as well.

hhp

Hi;

I've created several astrological fonts, exclusive, shareware and SIL. I'm about to release a Unicode version using assigned and custom placements with nearly 200 glyphs. It's a simple pen-plot design. I'll post the link when it is available.

Despite not taking astrology seriously, on my web site, at http://www.quadibloc.com/other/as02.htm I have an illustration of many astrological symbols. It is far from exhaustive, as there are glyphs for many more asteroids than I have shown.

I drew Zodiac signs for Oneleigh recently (although not yet added to the commercial release).

Very beautiful.

Yes, the Zodiac signs for Oneleigh are, in general, beautiful. But I think the one for Capricorn needs to be reviewed, as its shape is unconventional and hard to recognize. It's supposed to look more like a "V" than an "n" in the form that was chosen.

Thanks, Andreas.

Point taken, John. I was aware of the issue, and differentiated Capricorn from Scorpio in that regard, but perhaps not enough. Revisiting the standard: http://unicode-table.com/en/sets/signs-of-the-zodiac/ , I see that I could make the hump sharp(er), not so round.

Impressive set Quadblock. I have just uploaded a font called StarfisherUni. It's a SIL Open Font Licensed astrological font with Unicode assigned and custom positions. See Starfisher-UNI.pdf for a complete list of symbols and assignments.
This site has the source: download
A more classic astrology font can be downloaded from here as well as alchemy, enochian, American Indian symbols and Cherokee. The latter is currently being updated for Unicode.

btw,
I’m about to release an Andron Astrological font these days.

Nick Shinn:
After I posted my comment, though, I checked around on the Web for images of the Capricorn glyph, as I could only find one of the two forms I was familiar with in specimen books I was looking through. In doing that, I see that glyphs similar to yours are also in common use, and so my comment appears to be mistaken - even though a few old fogies like myself may have trouble with recognizing it.

Andreas Stötzner:
I see you're also including a lot of alchemical characters.

John, what is the gold standard of traditional zodiac symbols, in foundry type?
It’s hard for someone such as myself with no knowledge of astrology to get a bead on.

Andreas, be careful when delving into the occult…

Nick, I'm not aware of any standard for the zodiac symbols. I think a number of artists have added their own flair or style. I know of three different symbols for Capricorn, which tend to be regional.
Andreas, I don't see any astrological symbols in your character map. You present a nice and consistent style, rather than the one displayed by Unicode.org and others which is inconsistent with some glyphs appearing to be a rip-off of ones I created and some being butchered--I'm referring the the thick-nib pen style symbols.
A bit off-topic, but while alchemy can transform, it is akin to basic chemistry with one notable exception: Alchemists consider the life force in any cell, while chemists do not generally take this position. The original Order of the Rosicrucians use alchemy even today. The symbols used in alchemy have changed over the centuries, due mainly to certain individuals defrauding people with the use of the symbols, once they were known.

I would consult a few symbol dictionaries (such as Liungman's) for guidance on this, as I imagine they would be mindful of standard renderings.

hhp

> Andreas, be careful when delving into the occult…

I’m afraid it’s far too late for that advice. And I always thought I’m among members of the brotherhood here ;)
thanks anyway!

> I don't see any astrological symbols

yeep … right. This image shows the new 1F7xx Alchemical block. But the new font will contain all relevant astrological signs as well. The two subjects are intertwined in many ways, so the respective characters do form a sort of a set, i.m.o.

I could only find one site, that loaded too slowly, showing Hermann Zapf's astrological characters.

I don't have a gold standard - but a standard at the low end of the scale, what people are most familiar with seeing, can be found in the Linotype specimen book...

Here's some samples of two of the fonts I was referring to:

Starfisher

Astro

This search result may or not be useful, but at least it would be entertaining:

http://trixietreats.blogspot.ca/2008/11/astrology-illustrations-virgil-finlay.html