Thank you very, very much! Does he have to wear the hat?

pbc

Thanks for the organizational help, but isn't it in a rather non-obvious spot? The SIG forums get very little traffic as it is. This ought to have a link from every page at the bottom, like the "feedback" link does now.

You are right, Jason. This is intended to be temporary until we decide on a more suitable location.

I am at present wearing not a hat but a toque, but not the tall Dr. Seuss kind you foreigners might envision.

I marked the appropriate bug with tag bug:resolved and a corresponding comment. You need these in any bug-tracking system.

So thanks. Oh, and I undid the vandalism of a “moderator,” quite possibly Zara, in another thread. Passive-aggressive isn’t better than aggressive, kids.

joe said:
> Passive-aggressive isn’t better than aggressive, kids.

sure it is. infinitely better.

-bowerbird

Oh, and I undid the vandalism of a “moderator,” quite possibly Zara, in another thread. Passive-aggressive isn’t better than aggressive, kids.

I have no idea what you are referring to, Joe, honestly. I have not "vandalized" your threads, though I did take the time to remove the inappropriate "f***" and "f***tard" tags from the ones you created.

Well, Zara, and I see your own software censors you, somebody rewrote the heading of one of my postings. I am pleased to accept it wasn’t you. Now, who was it? Diamond Joe Pemberton?

You named this Corner after him, right?

I agree to use the term “fucktard” only as a last resort from now on. I expect a gold star on my report card for that one.

@joeclark

How is it that you don't know who works at Punchcut, the owners/operators of Typophile? I find it ridiculous that you are constantly bitching about the people who share their darn website with you.

It's like going into someone's house and whining when their nephew comes over and tells you that you shouldn't use his uncle's favorite sweater for a dish towel.

Tasteless and uncouth.

Wow, two days and Joe's corner has 22 topics created by joeclark, 2 created by bert_vanderveen, and 1 by paul d hunt! It really is Joe's Corner!

Joe's Corner: The MetaPile.

It's like going into someone's house and whining when their nephew comes over and tells you that you shouldn't use his uncle's favorite sweater for a dish towel.

I can't believe more people object to the manner of Joe's comments.
I may very well agree with some of his ideas for improvement, but his manner I find utterly repugnant.

I can't believe more people don't…
I should proof read.

I do, and have. For years now. But I’ve found that it does little good to try to berate or shun him. He’s not going to change and doesn’t seem to be going away.

I feel the best strategy at this point is to try to engage the ideas and move the conversation away from being about Joe.

Those statements that I find idiotic, I try to ignore.

joeclark deserves to be supervised / moderated - as one would do with any uncivil impetuous child.

joe ain't gonna let you change his tone.

why should he?

it's far better to interact with his ideas.

if you speak civilly to him,
he'll speak civilly in return.

-bowerbird

> if you speak civilly to him,
> he'll speak civilly in return.

Not always; or rather, not nearly often enough.

Example: He asks for a copy of a booklet. At your time/expense you copy it and send it. When you hear nothing back, you ask if he got it. Nothing. Ask again in public. He bites your hand.

Whether individually I can handle this or not is not the issue. The issue is: is it good for society? In this particular case: is it good for Typophile? I think David might be right: he's secretly wishing to be kicked out. But then: do you humor him or not?

hhp

I handle Joe Clark this way:

1) First, I tell him to f-ck off, basically.
2) Then, I write a favorable review of something he's done. (With good reason.)

The son-of-a-gun has talent and for that I'll put up with damned near anything.

Joe is civilly uncivil. Howzat?

rich

Hrant, that isn’t what happened. You threatened to accuse me of stealing a single GIF of a type specimen, which, incidentally, I didn’t do and is impossible anyway. So I used Typo-L to do what dozens and dozens of us have wanted to do over the years, and still do want to do: Tell you to fuck off. You’ve been barely tolerated for more than a decade.

I don’t know what Fink’s problem is.

That was actually another incident, where you were taking credit for my effort. Of course your version of the story will surely be as warped as your behavior.

> You’ve been barely tolerated for more than a decade.

At least I try to be tolerated, for example by helping people with designing type. In contrast you try to be not tolerated, so you can accuse people of intolerance.

> I don’t know what Fink’s problem is.

You. Get it through your head already.
You sound like Inspector Clouseau when Dreyfus is trying to fire him.

hhp

well, if you are not civil when you talk _about_ him,
you surely cannot expect joe to be civil talking to you.

-bowerbird

Hrant has been very polite of late and not nearly as scary as he used to be, maybe he's mellowing with age.

That's a compliment amongst this slanging match.

> surely cannot expect joe to be civil talking to you.

Ten years of experience with him -not just dealing with me but
others- indicates that it doesn't matter much how you talk to him.
As I said, even if you do him spontaneous favors he is still quite
likely to bite you. This does not mean however that we shouldn't do
him any favors; that would be a poor reflection on us. Our greatest
gift can be patience combined with candor.

hhp

I enjoy reading his blog.

Monologuing is easy - it involves no real compromise.

hhp

Have a link to the blog?

http://blog.fawny.org/

At least, I *think* it's his blog. Joe Clark, Toronto, typography . . . gotta be the one.

[beaten to the punch]

Dadgummit, that is an ugly site. I only mention it given that most of the current controversy is over website design and implementation.

Hear, hear.

seconded, Dan, & thirded.

For some reason seeing the blog and site kinda makes me feel sad about the whole situation. I wish Joe the best as he continues to grow.

Are you kidding me? http://joeclark.org/ Seriously? That - from the guy who parades himself around here?

Wow, truly sad.

This getting childish.

> Hrant has been very polite of late

i noticed that, yes i did, i sure did!

-bowerbird

p.s. and i bet if joe and hrant are
nice to each other for 10 years, to
offset their 10 years of fighting,
then we will all get a new pony...
(offer not valid where prohibited by law.)

FWIW, I really don't feel any different.

hhp

The moment there is a brawl in my regular place (coffee, newspapers, beer) I get outa there.
Typophile is becoming a less appealing place nowadays.
Pleas be civil. If you have a problem with certain members of this community, evade them. One always has a choice: hit he keys, or go to another thread.

Bert, I'd think that «being civil» and avoiding conflict at all costs are two separate things; you cannot expect everybody to deal with conflicts in the same way you do. In my world, some fights are simply worth being fought (this one not so much though).