What word are you using the glyph in? I can't find anything on the internet about a ua ligature.

R//R

What about these Caslon 'ua' ligatures Rodrigo? Or did you had in mind something else? There are hardly any words with 'ua' by the way.

There are hardly any words with ’ua’ by the way.

Actually, words with 'ua' aren't that unusual in English. In the word list I have on my computer, slightly over 1% of the words contain 'ua'. I'm guessing that that combination is much more common in other languages, like Spanish, though.

Hi Jonas,

In Spanish there should be a lot of words with 'ua': aqua etc. Do you know if the Spanish type designers add ligatures for 'ua'or some other ones no found in English?

Cheers

Hi guys,

First of all, thanks for the responses! I'm looking forward to test Caslon, but am open to other serifs that you could point me out to...

The word is "Luan". It's the name of a client. We are trying to make the word a type-logo, and thought that a serif with a ligature in the u+a could be very interesting.

If you can name more fonts, I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks!

Personally I think the ua logo idea is a really bad one. Really no reason for it typographically, and if you did succeed in using one in your logo don't you think it would be misinterpreted as a diphthong and cause the word Luan to be mispronounced?

Omega, those ua ligatures you show are really bad. Just my opinion.

terminaldesign, I'm not quite sold on that one. For example: hand-writing. Isn't a "ligature" for u and a expected?

>>In Spanish there should be a lot of words with ’ua’: aqua etc.
Portuguese also has lots of ’ua’ in words

>>Do you know if the Spanish type designers add ligatures for ’ua’ or some other ones no found in English?
Perhaps look for Portuguese type designers to see if they have that ligature...

António

I always understood ligature to be a typesetting term. More that one glyph on a single type body.

I never heard it used in relation to handwriting.

I understand that an fi ligature solves the problem of the hood of the f crashing into the dot of the i (except in turkish). I also understand the fl and other f to ascender ligatures solve a spacing and color problem.

I understand the dutch ij ligature because of how those letters are treated as a unit in the language.

I see no reason why a u and an a have to be designed as a single glyph/ligature. There is no color or spacing problem to solve. What other use would there be? If you want to use it to design a logo than by all means go ahead. But I don't think you are going to find it in any character set in an existing font

And just so you know where I'm coming from I always thought those ct and st ligatures to be an archaic affectation with no modern typographic relevance.

I agree with that. Ligatures are meant to solve problems, not create new ones as in some of the examples above. Where do you stop? Are there any letters of the alphabet that are going to remain on their own? Ligatures for "ab" "bc" "cd", anyone? Scripts are another matter altogether, and should not be confused with ligatures in general.

Hi James,

You are probably right, after all it was a half-hour rush job. Jorge Luis Borges' handwriting (and other ones, especially spanish or portuguese) have some awesome ligatures; it can be found online. It would be great if someone posted some 'ua' ligatures from handwriting. And how about sending some of your own 'ua' ligatures James, you and anyone else in a sort of unofficial Typophile battle? Actions speak louder than words...

By the way I have a book wihich has many typefaces by Spanish type designers, it is called 'Typosfera, Las nuevas Tipografias'. I found no 'ua' ligatures there.

Boris

Rodrigo,

Can you tell us a little about your client Luan? What is his profession and activities?

And how about sending some of your own ’ua’ ligatures James, you and anyone else in a sort of unofficial Typophile battle? Actions speak louder than words...

What about my previous post was unclear to you?

James is opposed even to the idea of a "ua" ligature. I think he has a right to that because after all it doesn't solve any "typographic" problems - certainly not in a text serif where it probably creates problems.

And again "ligature is a typographic term. There is no such thing as ligatures in lettering. Lettering is NOT typography.

All that said there's this flickr group that I find interesting.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/727900@N20/pool/

I like number 4 and number 6 in Omega's but still the u going beneath the baseline is objectionable. Maybe a superscript a!

Blue Island:
http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/adobe/blue-island/?testdrive=dock%3Dfalse%2...

All is clear in your previous post James and I agree totally with you; I also have the same view that one might try it out in logo design. Mrs Eaves did... Would...

A ligature (noun) is a characteristic of typesetting systems: a single glyph representing more than one character. To ligate (verb) is a characteristic of writing: the act of joining two or more letters together in some way. It follows that a ligature may or may not represent ligation, and ligation may be represented by means other than a ligature. From this flows much confusion. I'd say that Boris is looking for examples of ligated ua.

I always thought those ct and st ligatures to be an archaic affectation.

Hear, hear. But they still look so nice in Carter's Big Caslon.

I always thought those ct and st ligatures to be an archaic affectation.

They contribute beautifully to to the grace and flow of calligraphy; I wouldn't give them up for anything.

Calligraphy is not typography. When used in text typography those ct and st things draw attention to themselves and just look distracting. Not a good thing in text typography.

Riccardo sent me this link:

http://new.myfonts.com/foundry/Stephenson_Blake/

With 'Luans' all over the place...
If you type the word as sample test of course...

When used in text typography those ct and st things draw attention to themselves and just look distracting. Not a good thing in text typography.

That rather depends on the text. I would agree that these forms are no longer appropriate to book length texts, simply because readers are not used to them; there was a time when they regularly appeared in book typography, so they can't be considered inherently inappropriate: they're just inappropriate now. But there remain settings in which they can be used sensitively and benefit typography precisely because they are out of the ordinary: they can signify out of the ordinary texts. And of course they can be used to deliberately evoke period typography.

> And of course they can be used to deliberately evoke period typography.

Yeah, and so will a long s. But do you really want to inflict that on the reader of a lengthy work?

Thanks for the nice set of comments, guys. Pretty amazing.

I somehow find two discussions here: Typography as a function (with ligatures like "fi" that solve legibility issues) and typography as decoration (with ligatures like "st" which by no means solve problems, but yet add interesting touches for type-embellishment).

Of course, a ligature like st/ct won't help in copy text, but if they are used in a logo or in short sentences, they could be the winning touch for a minimal site. Take a look for example at this one: www.pisto-magazin.de

labyrinthos: My client is a cardiologist with a deep interest in photography. He wants to build a minimal site to showcase his pictures, with a brief comment right below them. A blog. So we are designing a minimal, type oriented site that focuses on content and pictures. I'm attaching a preview of what we have now, everything is set in Helvetica (no more than two sizes), pixels are measured perfectly within a 930px grid, and so we need an interesting, yet not so disturbing, logo for the header. We thought that "Luan", in red (like in Pisto Magazine), will work. And thought that a ligature/swash for the "ua" could help even more.

Here's the site we are working on: http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5520/luancom20090928grid.jpg

Thanks!

I agree with James (Terminaldesign), that you’re heading down the wrong path in trying to force a connection between u and a. I’d look at a different solution.

Alternatively, go for a script, or romanesque script, in which all the letters connect. Examples: Roman Script, Mousse Script, Kursivschrift.