If you want to avoid war then verbalize precisely

the three lines in a red circle mean the part ao a maschine (motor) where the scythe of a lawnmower is fixed against centrifugal force...
(they call it E-SPLINT - and they devolped that style by there own)

your post rationalisation of the lines in a red circle is pretty tenuous.

as for the logotype ... the placement of the Es in the circle is currently breaking the flow of the word

----------
Paul Ducco
Graphic Designer - Melbourne

the placement of the Es in the circle is currently breaking the flow of the word

Unless these were meant to serve as a reference to wheels of some kind.

Yes, I'm agree wih Ratbaggy and epsilicon.
It's about those gap between ER and EN.

It’s about those gap between ER and EN.
----------------------------------------

AAHHHHHH!
I see...

You're right!
I was concentrated on the gap beteween "K" & "E" and between "T" & "E"...

Second question:
What do you all think about the method using a standard font and change ONE or TWO small attributes...
e.g.

OK...
NO modification!!!

NOW the "wheels" are subordinated in original spacing of the font!
Result: FORGETT IT! Some modification is needful...

NOW the "mathematically" version with same space between the letters...
AWFUL!

With modified "K" and "E"... and gaps...

OK, now I could be finished... if YOU think so ;)

Now the E character look like O with three horizontal bars. :D
But it's better than the previous versions.

Initial thought: The spacing is too tight to have those bullets.

Initial thought: The spacing is too tight to have those bullets.

BOOYAH!

----------
Paul Ducco
Graphic Designer - Melbourne

a possible amendment

What do you think about the flying "S" ???

This makes it worse for two reasons. The S is now floating and those bullets are still distracting.

far from perfect but you get the idea

----------
Paul Ducco
Graphic Designer - Melbourne

Hello Ratbaggy!

THX - and NO!
Why not?
a) there is not ONE -small- modification in any letter...
b) it looks like CAR or TRUCK... but not like the product portfolio of that company...
c) I'm missing the 'dynamic/progressive' cursive...

You're right with you oppinion about the tight spacing... and your comment about 'distracting bullets'... YEAH! I want it!
Cause after the FIRST look every eye can remember the bullets with the "E"...

Tomorrow I'll give u a new corresponding idea - depending on SPACING AND BULLETS

wwweye :)

here the next try... solution is coming soon (i feelt it in my right knee ;) )

BUT - I'm not sure with the eye catcher

The spacing you have and the coloring is terrible.

Just take Ratbaggy's and alter the "E"s.

penn

> I'm forced to use that RED...

Please, don't kill me now!
but this is the today's shit.
(maybe I should drink less and smoke more... ;) ) *joke*

A) Why do you need to modify at all?

B) Then just have one E in a circle. The versions you've produced evoke the same car/truck motif.

C) I don't see dynamic or progressive in your samples either. If that's the direction the brief has set out you may need to re-examine those two elements and start from the ground up again.

I see why you're trying to make a mark out of the type, but it's obviously forced and a bit contrived. As well, the second and sixth letters don't have any rational for being that mark. When I look at this company and it's aesthetic I get a hard angled utilitarian quality.

I think it's time to let go of this concept. Move on. There are plenty of fish in the sea, there's no reason to keep begging this fish to keep you. I know you love her, but she's just not the one for you. She's making you look VERY desperate, so stop forcing it.

Hello wwweye...
I think I should agree with Alaskan now. If the 'focus group' said those bullets are bad, then it is bad. :D

This totally looks like a logo for a Trucking company. I can just see it plastered in vinyl on the side of a big rig. I don't get dynamic or progressive from it – well maybe dynamic, but not in a good way. I would avoid Eurostile – and wait ... did you manually skew Eurostile Extended Black? Or did you manually stretch Eurostile Black Oblique. I'm sorry, I don’t mean to be an ass, but nothing about this logo is really working for me.

[Edit] I just read my post back and realized that I could have been more helpful. I'd be happy to offer some constructive feedback if you let me know a bit more about who/what this logo is for.

Hi folks...

a) I really thank you 4 yr help, yr thoughts, yr critics & yr ideas! No one of you should be sorry about critical statements in my direction... it's OK and I begged for...

b) my english isn't good enough for understanding everything at the FIRST point.
I am able to understand FACTS but I'm not able to understand emotional statements or cynical comments or phrases or sentences in metaphorical meaning.
Sorry, I'm from Austria ;)

@picard102
> A) Why do you need to modify at all?

To modify the font???
Cause I dislike the fact that any rooky secretary is able to rebuild the logo only by finding out that this is EUROSTYLE.

> B) Then just have one E in a circle. The versions you’ve produced evoke the same car/truck motif.

This idea could be the last solution...

> As well, the second and sixth letters don’t have any rational for being that mark

My intention is/was to benefit by the fact that the SECOND and the PENULTIMATE letters are the same. In my point of view this is a big advantage in contructing a logo out of company name... specially when the company builts up something with wheels...
===============================================

@Ed_Aranda
> I’d be happy to offer some constructive feedback if you let me know a bit more about who/what this logo is for.

It's a company in germany which produces machines for landscape maintenance - target group are communities...

If you didn't understand my comment due to a language barrier, I'll be harshly honest. Apologies in advance...

I think it's really bad.
The concept is not working at all.
It looks amateur.

My best advice is to abandon the concept completely and start over. It looks like you're trying VERY HARD to force it to work, but it just doesn't look right, and I don't think it ever will. Stop focusing on the E circles and try something else.

Hi Alaskan
> It looks like you’re trying VERY HARD to force it to work, but it just doesn’t look right...

Your term 'force' seems to be right - for thr first moment...

> and I don’t think it ever will. Stop focusing on the E circles and try something else.

I'm sure there IS a solution... but obviously not my actual idea.
For me it seems to be easy to top THAT ACTUAL logo:

and tomorrow (today) I'll give you a different example...

good morning!
here are the new possibilities...

The second typeface look less formal, IMHO. :D

Why? Why? Why?

! ! !

If you are not representing the "E-SPLINT," there is no reason to focus on the letter e. It holds no meaning. It makes no sense. It's not connected to the brand, the company, or the industry. It does not make the name more memorable, it just looks bad.

I begging you! Stop thinking the two ees provide a solution. They do not. Focus on the whole name! The company's existing logo is much (much!!) better than anything you've done here.

Why? Why? Why?

! ! !

If you are not representing the “E-SPLINT,” there is no reason to focus on the letter e. It holds no meaning. It makes no sense. It’s not connected to the brand, the company, or the industry. It does not make the name more memorable, it just looks bad.

I begging you! Stop thinking the two ees provide a solution. They do not. Focus on the whole name! The company’s existing logo is much (much!!) better than anything you’ve done here.

Agreed.

penn

yup. their existing logo is better. find a new concept.

Dude, start over. Wipe the slate completely clean and try something entirely different. Alaskan pretty much covered all the details, so I won’t restate.

Think about the types of things this company makes and try to envision what kind of logo would belong on those things. For instance, if they make lawnmowers, think about what kind of logo you might see on a lawnmower, then do something better!

Some questions to ask yourself that might help you to better define what your logo should implicitly communicate:

If the lawnmower company was a person, what kind of conversation would you expect to have with him (assuming lawnmower is male)? What kind of language (tone) would he use when he speaks? What kind of clothes would he wear? What kind of music would he listen to? What kind of car would he drive?

Avoid making random design choices. Treat each design choice as part of the solution to your problem. If your problem is that you ran out of milk, you wouldn’t spray your fridge with a fire extinguisher.

Hope some of this gets through. Good luck.

Your thoughts an crits don't stroke me but they help me enormously in thinking about...
---------------------------------------------

@Ed_Aranda
> If the lawnmower company was a person, what kind of conversation would you expect to have with him (assuming lawnmower is male)? What kind of language (tone) would he use when he speaks? What kind of clothes would he wear? What kind of music would he listen to? What kind of car would he drive?

NO!
That Logo will be made for the FISH, not for the FISHERMAN!!!
U understand?
It's not my/our job to satisfy or to enjoy the fisherman - and afterwards not one fish bites...
This is my experience in marketing!
And this is the reason why I generally don't accept the assistance of the owner of a logo... again I prefer YOUR independend thoughts without any wrong emotions...
U understand?
--------------------------------------------

@Alaskan
Yep!
The focus on E-SPLINT will solve two circumstances:
1) The owner of the company can identify his development in his name.
2) The customers know the symbol because of removing the scythe for grinding.

What do you think about that idea?:
(the only modification of a letter was a contraction of the middle bar of the "E" in order that it looks similar theyr splint)

@Ed_Aranda
> think about what kind of logo you might see on a lawnmower, then do something better!

This one :D :D :D

>U understand?

I don't think you understand. No one is saying have the CEO design the logo for you. He's saying you need to do the basic ground work for any branding project by identifying the personality of the company. Without doing so your attempts will always come up short of the real goal.

>The focus on E-SPLINT will solve two circumstances:

It doesn't solve any real issues at all. Firstly it is an E, not a graphical representation of the tool. The majority of people will see it as such. Secondly focusing on this half baked direction causes more problems then any it might solve.

>What do you think about that idea?

You're going to get the same replies here over and over because you can't divorce yourself from this concept.

It's horrible. It's been said time and time again and no amount of variations on E's is going to produce a different response. You're just spinning in circles. You need to separate your ego from the concept and move on to something else.

You're not listening, and people will just give up on this thread if you can't get past that.

Design Police: THIS IDEA DOES NOT COMMUNICATE.

You may not commit suicide after these comments, and that is good. But you might be frustrated by the responses. The feedback is only good when it pertains to good concepts, or actually moves the concept further in direction of becoming good. That being said, take picard's advice and scratch this one (let this concept commit suicide).

Do yourself, and us, a favor--Start a new thread with a better concept. That is the best feedback you can get.

by evanbrog:
> (let this concept commit suicide).
:D :D :D

OK, gimme two days...

Next idea... NOT a solution:

Good nite now

The new concept is better than the old concept. The problem being that either you need to not use stencilled letters for the KRSTN or you need to make the EE look as if they are stencilled.

@Alaskan
Good morning!
Very interesting - that I should turn from black to red! ;)
------------------------------

@Tiff
Sorry, don't understand.. :)

I'm not tired in modify my idea...

*again*

penn

OK
YOU seem to be grafics profis...
I am marketing profi...

I create 3 more different logos - AND ON FRIDAY THE MARKETING DIRECTOR CAN DECIDE.
And when he denies all possibillities, that idea commits suicide!

THX
bye :)
nice jobs!

Then you should leave the design to the designers. These are all pretty horrible.

Are you seriously presenting these ideas to the client?
Why would you miss the chance to the actually come up with some new working concepts?

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that there is a serious language barrier preventing us from communicating, because everything everyone says seems to go completely ignored.

@Ed_Aranda
If the lawnmower company was a person, what kind of conversation would you expect to have with him (assuming lawnmower is male)? What kind of language (tone) would he use when he speaks? What kind of clothes would he wear? What kind of music would he listen to? What kind of car would he drive?

NO!
That Logo will be made for the FISH, not for the FISHERMAN!!! U understand?
It’s not my/our job to satisfy or to enjoy the fisherman - and afterwards not one fish bites...This is my experience in marketing! And this is the reason why I generally don’t accept the assistance of the owner of a logo... again I prefer YOUR independend thoughts without any wrong emotions... U understand?

I wasn’t even going to bother responding to this, but it’s bugging me. Like Picard said, I’m not telling you to let the client design the logo, I’m saying that it’s your job as the designer to communicate visually, however you see fit, the values and personality of the brand. Your ideas thus far communicate nothing at all. It honestly looks like you put a bunch of letters and shapes in a hat and chose at random.

PREFACE
I think I've made a big big mistake in presenting a half-done logo!!!
OF COURSE there is a 'communicative addition' - but in my thoughts I knew that this fact will be added afterwards...

NOW the logo communicates *imho*
- Name
- Technic (san serif)
- Dynamic (italic)
- Company Color (red)
- Wheels
- Symbol (E-Splint)

Everybody can see/read that the company deals in 'Machines On Wheels' - whatever they are and whatever they do.
------------------------------------------------------

@Ed_Aranda

> I wasn’t even going to bother responding to this, but it’s bugging me. Like Picard said, I’m not telling you to let the client design the logo, I’m saying that it’s your job as the designer to communicate visually, however you see fit, the values and personality of the brand. Your ideas thus far communicate nothing at all. It honestly looks like you put a bunch of letters and shapes in a hat and chose at random.

The client won't design, the client only decides...

About the company:
- OF COURSE they produce more than only lawnmowers... but everything they build has got wheels...
- All the leading people in company are engineers/technicians...
- It's a family enterprise with NO identification still yet...

Under that new aspects my logo of course communicates!

About the "E":
I've seen thousands of logos where a symbol was designed in a 'cramped' (artifical) way.
Designers (mostly rookies) did awful things in putting letters together for creating communication.

HERE it seems to be a 'present of heaven' ;) where the both "E" are positioned.
Furthermore the "E" and one of theyr self-developed parts (E-Splint) fit together in a perfect way...
And if I won't use that facts everybody can insult me 'blind'!!!

ru :)

Troll?

penn

Must be.