Damn, them prices are spicy!

Hello Trevor,

Stalemate by Stefan Hattenbach has the same kind of flavour:
http://www.fountaintype.com/typefaces/stalemate

Pieter

clauses: Massively spicy. It's obviously high-class stuff, but explaining to a client that they need nearly $530AUD for just 3 font weights doesn't usually go over very well.

Pieter van Rosmalen: Thanks. Not a bad option there. The stroke thickness seems to vary more on Argo (in just the right places it seems), giving it a really slick feel.

I'm sure my terminology is wrong, but I still make the observations :)

http://typophile.com/node/19041
http://typophile.com/node/45785

Oh wow. In that case, my apologies for the repeat post. I assumed Argo was much more obscure! :)

Thanks

No problem.

I find Stalemate a bit too similar to Argo...

Gustavo,
I can assure you that Stalemate isn't based on Argo if that's what you mean with "too similar"? It started out as a custom project and the client wanted a sans serif looking more like FF Dax. So there is where I began my studies.

Cheers

Zotica:
http://www.molotro.com/zotica.html

Apex New..... (there is an Apex Compact on the way)
http://www.vllg.com/Thirstype/ApexNew/mudTyper+Weights/

Dione:
http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/dstype/dione/

Dobra:
http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/dstype/dobra/

Prelo:
http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/dstype/prelo/

Mikey :-)

Nice to keep finding Unger's fonts cropping up that I've not seen before (pardon my ignorance).

A modern one that bears some resemblance might be Modena by Miles Newlyn.

I know this is a really old subject but I was in a similar situation myself. So for anyone else picking up on this thread: The closest font to Argo I found is Praxis Pro with a 98 % Horizontal scaling (or 2% slimmer). Gerhard Unger designed Praxis in the late 70's and it's still a really modern font. Used in small sizes, Praxis is a cheaper alternative to the very pricey Argo. I've now bought both.

[link removed by admin, see note below]

Normally squooshing fonts is best avoided, but:
- To me 2% is probably OK.
- Unger actually designs his fonts to tolerate such distortions.

hhp

@Cornish: You should delete that url. Not a legal deal.

I'll alert Chris.

hhp

Link removed. Don’t post links to websites that offer pirated fonts. Please adhere to Typophile’s forum guidelines: http://typophile.com/readme
Thank you.

Thank you, Florian. I guess I'll bug you sometimes now. :-)

hhp

I brought this thread to Jared’s attention before taking action. Usually I remove and send the poster a personal correspondence.

Does any have a source to legal documentation that states what the minimum deviation from a font is before it’s not breaking copyright? It may be the case that a 2% distortion is in fact acceptable. Ethics are a separate issue, and a slippery slope if we start acting on personal opinion. The best we can do is ask posters to be mindful.

If I have his permission, I’ll share Jared’s response.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention Hrant.

Does any have a source to legal documentation that states what the minimum deviation from a font is before it’s not breaking copyright? It may be the case that a 2% distortion is in fact acceptable.

Dear Chris, although I think this is not what you may have intended writing the quoted sentence, I would like to point at the following: Even if their would be legal documentation that states something about a minimum deviation, how would one define, measure and evaluate this? ‘Two percent of a typeface’: Of a given font? Of the latin letters? ‘Considerable difference’: How much is considerable? Such a document will hardly give us a clue of what may turn out to be acceptable when a court has to decide on such a case or what a committee of experts may advise or what lawyers may agree on before such a case comes to court. Also we have to take into account that the value of legal documentation is more or less related to the legal situation in the country for which the documentation applies. Different countries, different laws …

I think that the easiest way for a forum like this is to simply keep the obvious pirates out and that ‘2% discussions’ tend to be contra-productive. Being designers and foundries living in the small world of applied arts, I think we should try our best to be fair to each other rather that discussing on how to try to stay within thought legal boundaries.

Superbly put.

hhp

Being designers and foundries living in the small world of applied arts, I think we should try our best to be fair to each other…

Couldn’t agree more. I was looking for, for the sake of simplicity. any legal documentation regarding any form of horizontal scaling at all, from any country. Good will aside, to protect the legal rights, and livelihoods, of type designers, such documentation will eventually have to exist. The amount of discussion on this forum regarding plagiarism, outline theft &c is a testament to this.

Before computers and the internet, this may not have as relevant issue, but times, technology, and what they empower individuals to do have changed, and will most certainly require new methods to address. Trust me, I’m on your side. I wouldn’t be part of this community if I wasn’t.

What do you mean by “thought legal boundaries?”

What do you mean by “thought legal boundaries?”

Having read and heard about cases of plagiarism, I think I may say that the felt difference between what the law may seem to state and what experts called in by the court may decide to advise can be breathtaking to those who think (thought) of their designs to be protected legally (the boundary in this case). In Germany, a typeface design is considered to be applied art which means that the work you did as a typeface designer cannot be truly new and unique. One can register a design as ‘Geschmacksmuster’ though. This costs money and it is only a registration. When someone else has registered a similar design (before you) or even your design (!), things may become troublesome. After all, who can tell wether two designs are the same, similar or different enough? Experts called in by the court in such cases may be experts on antiques, art, design or whatever, but not necessarily on typeface design on a level that you might expect or would like them to be.
A classical example of how a court may decide on originality is the design of the figure 1 in the ARD logotype as can be seen here top left: http://www.ard.de The ARD is the largest stately owned broadcasting institution in Germany. After the ARD launched its new logo, a German commercial broadcasting station that was new to the market decided to have a figure 1 in its name Kabel 1 (Cable 1) and logo as well. It did not take long until they were sued by the ARD for plagiarism. Although the ARD 1 had been explicitely and exclusively designed for ARD (there is no typeface that includes a 1 in this design), the court decided that the (registered) design of the figure 1 was not original enough to deserve protection at all. The 1 has been drawn on an angular grid and although we may consider this to be quite unique for a figure 1, the court decided that it was not. I find it astonishing that even an institution like the ARD who can spend more money on a legal case than all members of Typophile may bring up together, has not been able to win this case.

thank you Ben for linking to Modena.

Foundry form is also very nice.
http://www.foundrytypes.co.uk/the-foundry-typefaces/sans/params/foundry-...

Oh gosh, that was a while ago! :-)