I can't agree or disagree with this, Armin, as I was not in Minneapolis. However, I have attended ATyp*I meetings and found this to be far more accessible and the principals far more interested in doing a bit of outreach to all the marginalized design student types than the folks at ATyp*I have ever attempted.

And while I think your intentions are very good here, maybe the person who surveyed folks with the question of "what animal does this typeface make you think of?" might not be the right person to be leveling even a constructive criticism of Typecon's content.

I myself learned quite a lot - about Michael Harvey's work, about the history of calligraphy and its transferrence to digital form, about the history of early printing in the Americas and so much more.

Perhaps the informal structure of Typecon does quite a bit to make the "big stars" more accessible to the rest of us - which in turn allows us to interface with them informally, which always provides a better setting for information transferrence than even the most structures and data-packed lecture or workshop. I learned plenty from my conversations with Jorge de Buen, Michael Harvey, Claudio Rocha, et. al.

The only downside I see to Typecon is the general structure of the meeting - that there is only one big lecture going on all the time. Every single talk is a "general session" - I think it would make more sense to have a few general sessions and a number of breakouts/workshops going on in 2 or 3 rooms all the time. But this is neither here nor there and I doubt it has much to do with your comments.
I don't want Typecon to turn into ATyp*I. Each organization and their meeting has its place, and if there is too much overlap we'll lose the informality of Typecon and the more rigid academic approach of ATyp*I, both of which would be a shame. Maybe Sota should embrace the fact that it is a different organization with a different character and that its annual Typecon is a completely different animal.

Armin, I agree, on virtually all counts. And thanks for bringing it up. True to your style.

The only other TypeCon that I've attended was the really small (and really inspirational) first one*. But I've been to about 7 type conferences so far, and except for ATypI Leipzig in '00 this one was the most meager in terms of content**. Personally I was thinking it's simply my perspective, that many of the topics simply didn't interest me, but they might interest others - I know my taste is strange anyway. On the other hand, I think there's something to be said about having more than one track. Not three, I don't think, but the occasional missed talk caused by two tracks is made up by having more people attending the talks, getting more education out of it. So that's the one main thing I'd change for NY. But I wouldn't raise the price - not least because I noted the "validation" of so many students, like Andy saying now he knows he's doing the right thing. BTW, part of the craziness is probably due to the low price attracting younger people, that's all. Do we want TypeCon to be much older? We still have ATypI for that - and it's good to have differentiation, not just of geography but of spirit.

* Interestingly, it was in the middle of nowhere, which maybe allowed for more focus. On the other hand, it's not like we left the 1-2 block area around the Nikko very much either...

** To make it up, Leipzig had the city, SF had The Party.

--

BTW, I thought the animal thing was much more than just laughs - to me it was very revealing, in the way that asking direct, obvious questions can never be.

hhp

I imagine that at least part of the frustration you express stems from the difficulty of putting on an annual event. On one hand, the organizer wants to keep things fresh and interesting for people who have been there at least once before; on the other, you still need to offer more general things for the people for whom this particular conference is their first.

The result is that not all of the conference will end up being interesting to everyone, so naturally people will be out of the conference room at any given time, unless it's a major event. Like JLT, I can't compare this to last year, since I wasn't there, but for me, I learned quite a bit in the sessions (my three recaps are here). And if I was out of the session, I was meeting and talking with many interesting people. I think it's a credit to SoTA that the conference does attract so many friendly, down-to-earth people, which allowed me to vastly expand the number of people I actually know who love the same things I that I love.

Of course, I'm sure I enjoyed the conference more than Armin's friend because I've been associated with the Typophile/Typographica community for a couple of years but had only until TypeCon been able to meet most in person, so I had more of a personal stake in going. Had I known only one person going in, I don't know what my experience would have been.

Also, Armin, I think part of your frustration is that you felt somewhat responsible for your friend having a good time, and it may have kept you from enjoying the conference as much as you might have otherwise. At any event, some people just aren't going to have a good time, for whatever reason or combination of reasons. That's the way it goes. But it doesn't necessarily reflect on the event.

At this point I'm planning on going next year. True, NYC has many diversions, and it may be more difficult to get people to sessions since the conference won't be at a hotel where everyone's staying. So SoTA has a challenge on its hands. One suggestion someone made was that there be more organized field trips. If people are going to wander, then have them wander together, right?

The only two general suggestions I would make to SoTA would be 1) to get the panels/presentations figured out much earlier than they were this year, or at least announce them earlier, and 2) appoint a timekeeper -- the events I went to almost uniformly started much later than announced, and many ran long. This was particularly a problem for the evening events, but it happened in the sessions as well. I will say, though, it seemed to get better by the end.

One more thing:
It might seem backwards, but I think maybe the hospitality was too good! Those teas, coffees, cookies, cakes, bagels were really really good - they hit the spot bigtime in terms of recovering from the previous night, and making up for the lack of time to eat properly and relax - but I think they pulled people away from the talks. And the area outside the conference room was really light and attractive, it even had a great view. So basically the area outside the room was maybe too inviting!

And if you think about it, this doesn't go with the inexpensive/youthful angle that TC enjoys, and probably should maintain. In fact every time I walked throught the Nikko lobby I was thinking: "This is too fancy for us..." An attendance that benefits from the low admission cost is less likely to depend on "luxuries" to enjoy the conference - the rest is basically content, and that can be good or bad in virtually any environment. And the money SoTA could save there could go towards paying for a second program track.

And yet more suggestions! :-)
1) Change the auction in a big way, somehow - it needs help.
2) Turn the critique sessions into a bigger, better deal (not least for the students). More experts, different experts, from different areas (not just type design), better means of presentation (for one thing it's impossible to show non-print fonts), much better promotion, etc. They had trouble filling the ten spots - and certainly not because the experts were lemons.

BTW, who's hosting NY? Hoefler, Terminal, a team?

--

Chesh, I like your suggestions - especially the field trip one.

hhp

I can't take credit for the field-trip suggestion -- I just passed it along since it sounded good to me. I agree with expanding the number and scope of critiques. Really wish I'd made it to the one session, but given how late and long everything else had been, I figured I could grab a quick lunch and get back well before it was over. By the time we got there, it had just ended, a good half hour before it reasonably should have. I thought the slots were filled -- the signup sheet sure seemed so a day or so before. D'oh!

This is the first type conference that I've been to, but compared to other design conferences that I've attended TypeCon had so much more of a friendly, open, respectful and overall positive vibe than I thought it would. The overall open and friendly attitude is what leads to wild/fun parties and lots of networking/socializing in the area outside the conference room.

The TDC is hosting the NYC TypeCon. As should have been evident as Gary Munch (current TDC president) and Carol Wahler (TDC Executive Director) unveiled the NY venue. That is, after Muller-Lance blew the surprise.

Keep the suggestions coming. Notes (from your suggestions) are being taken I'm sure (or will be). TDC is hosting (oops, thanks James).

Please keep this discussion going; nothing will serve to improve TypeCon more than constructive, reasoned criticism. It may hurt a little now, but it'll help so very much down the road.

And please keep your thoughts about the venues, the speakers, and the workshops top of mind. We plan to send a post-conference survey to attendees in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks,

Jon

The TDC? Cool. They certainly have what it takes.

BTW, before Joachim blew the surprise, J&J did: in the closing credits of the Film Festival (around midnight on Thursday) it said "see you in NY" or something!

hhp

Just to clarify one thing, it's not frustration. It's more like "consternation" if you will. And it doesn't even affect me, so this is not really personal, I was pleased with TC (well, I wasn't exactly, but you know what I mean), I had a good time, I attended some talks missed others, chatted outside the conference room, went to pee many times, I missed the cookies Hrant talks about, I did miss all the parties (but that was personal choice, I'm not the partying kind). And my friend who didn't like it, that's his fault not mine.

TypeCon doesn't need to be AtypI, and hopefully it will never be, but that doesn't mean that it can't mature. And for what it's worth, I thought there were a LOT of older people at TC, there were lots of young ones but a lot of people over 50.

And I would also like to add a suggestion. A moderator. Please. There was a huge disconnect between presentations, there was little to no continuity; that doesn't mean that back-to-back talks need to tackle the same topic, but there wasn't anything gluing the whole conference together. Sometimes it would be the TypeBox guys presenting the speakers, other times it was Kent Lew (who has my vote for moderator), other times Allan Haley and, heck, even me. The AIGA conferences do this very well, they have one person (true, it happens to be the amazing John Hockenberry) that "leads" the attendees in and out of each talk, he prepares questions for the presenter

As an addendum, it would help, Armin, if you could be a little more descriptive. The conference planners worked extremely hard to provide a diverse, engaging program; they also worked, in response to some of last year's comments, to provide a suitable social space for attendees, with plenty of atmosphere, food, and drink.

Is it the fault of the conference planners if attendees decide not to attend particular sessions? Is it the fault of the attendees themselves? Or is it not about "fault" at all? It may simply be that attendees, despite several excellent sessions, chose to take time away to reminisce with old friends and meet some new ones.

Thanks,

Jon

> The conference planners worked extremely hard to provide a diverse, engaging program

Oy, of course Jon. I'm not AT ALL questioning the effort of you and the rest of the planners. And I knew that by posting this I would be the "bad guy" but that's fine, I'll do another movie asking people what they think of me, that'd be fun.

Seriously though, I don't know what it was specifically. I don't know what other people like. And I'm not sure who's "fault" is it

One thing I missed was talks focused on traditional text typefaces or text typography.

In general, I liked the programming okay, although there were only a couple of talks that really excited me.

Mind you, one or two of the most interesting talks were scheduled for 8:30 am. That's just insane. The schedule shouldn't start earlier than 9, and should start later on later days of the conference. If you want to have more talks, go to two tracks for the "peak hours" of the conference (sort of one and a half tracks, potentially).

The timing issues will be worse in NYC, when some people will be coming from earlier time zones. Definitely don't want to start sessions too early.

My two cents, anyway.

Cheers,

T

Aside from party photos and talk of "lovefests," there have been a number of very engaging articles written about TypeCon. Cheshire already mentioned what he had written, Mark Simonson also has a nice piece over at his site.

Perhaps getting jiggy with it wasn't exactly the purpose or intent of TypeCon, it simply happened to be a memorable experience for many, including myself, regardless of whether or not it was directly related to type. I agree with Andy in regards to being able to meet, network, and make new friends. I think it has been said in various places that being able to put a voice to a name and having real, one on one conversations in person and yes, even having a damned good time over drinks after the conference room closed, was incredibly enlightening and I think makes events like TypeCon very special.

Young people, like myself, did indeed learn a great deal from what I saw and experienced, you can't beat this kind of education, (and honestly am slightly annoyed by the notion that the young people had something to do with the lack of focus.) Reading a book isn't nearly as benificial as seeing and experiencing in person. Many of the speakers are highly influential on younger designers, and it was thrilling to see and learn from people (Akira Kobayashi, Ed Benguiat, Erik Spiekermann, to name only a few) who are currently being taught in design schools. I personally give a lot of credit to SOTA for making sure that students are included in these events.



And that is my two cents.

Zara

Zara and I are on the same page but I think the social aspect *is* part of the purpose of these types of events. I can honestly say that I learned a lot by the presentations (even though there naturally were some that I wasn't really interested in), but meeting people and having both intellectual conversation and laid back fun converstation was priceless. I showed up at TypeCon only knowing a few people's names and left feeling that I've started friendships with people that I would love to continue to associate myself with.

This might be a useful story:
Did you see photo #6 in Andy's album? The one with Aaron thinking "Whaaat?!" That was me trying to explain Alfred Kallir's theories about the true origins of the Latin alphabet. The conversation started from the quiz question about what the "A" was. I stated that the conventional story was a case of Christian censorship - bullshit, if you would pardon the pun. And I drew what Kallir thought each letter symbolized: Man, Woman, Womb, Pregnancy, Delivery, Mother & Child, Man Exalting (the "G" was skipped, for obvious reasons), etc. Sure it was kind of a sexual/fun thing but I think it's worth knowing (Johanna Drucker covers it in her book too). This is one way the party had some "content" - and I'm sure people all over the room were having similar quasi-typographic discussions, even in that noise and booze. You don't learn everything in an auditorium.

So maybe people (especially those like me who don't get enough partying done throughout the year) enjoy talking about the debauchery most, but that doesn't mean that's all they got out of the event. For one thing, Palatino Sans was totally jaw-dropping, and Roger Black's advice was 24 carat gold. Personally I would have liked to see more technical stuff too (sort of like Thomas said I think), and more frugality overall (and frankly I worry about this last bit concerning next year).

What makes me really happy? To see that SoTA is clearly nimble and modest enough to willingly take advice, and I'm sure they'll act on it*. The future is bright bright bright.

* If you manage to dig up my review of TC98 you'll note that this has apparently remained intact since the Early Days.

hhp

Of course now, I'm sounding like a complete a$ hole. Look, TypeCon is great, TypeCon rocks more than many other conferences. but it can be better. In my own sole opinion that is based on a) TypeCon 2003 and b) TypeCon 2004 and this opinion that I somehow decided to voice in Typophile of all places is that a was a better package. Why? I don't know. I'm not blaming it on youth (as Zara assumed I was, when I said "mature" it was metaphorical) or the speakers or the planning committee or the sunny city of San Fran.

I know everybody learned something in their own way. Running my own site and doing smaller events (MUCH smaller than TypeCon, yes) I know that it's important to hear the good, the bad and the ugly. It's also funny that I'm, coming across as if I didn't enjoy myself, I did. And I learned as much from the presenters as I did chatting with people outside. I'm just removing my emotional/sentimental/whatever emotions and trying to make a constructive criticism. (Maybe I need to add some smiley faces like Yves does). And after all is said and done, anybody can take it, leave it, ignore it, curse it

I think Typecon this year contained something to interest everyone. I liked the variety, but at the same time I really like the idea of separate tracks so that people can focus on what interests them most. This would also give more people the opportunity to speak on more specialized topics that might interest a few, but not the masses.

Highlights this year:
I thought the tribute to Ed Benguiat was very moving and I really enjoyed hearing Akira speak. The best part of Typecon, however, is the friends that you meet.

I didn't make it to all the sessions, but I think most people would agree that by Sunday they had information overload and couldn't absorb much more. Maybe missing a few sessions isn't such a bad thing.

I personally don't take what you are saying, Armin, as being any bit of a donkey. Constructive criticism is the only way things get improved.

A for instance: The first ATypI which I attended -- Rome, 2001 -- had an incredible bent toward history (or the track I attended) and so I felt the content was absolutely amazing because that is where my heart resides. Plus it took place in Rome where I had never visited. The second, while still excellent, didn't quite do it for me as did the first. But, learning still happened.

Armin, I'm getting the sense that you are talking about two different issues in your first post. One is about the dialogue surrounding photos from the parties, one is about the content at the conference.

I agree that feedback is vital towards making any event like this better and more valid to the attendees, any conference or any organization needs to evolve and remain flexible, and it's cool that you decided to speak up about your opinion. It's also interesting to me to see how people have viewed past conferences, as it gives me an idea of what kind of context to view how this one was organized.

However, I do feel that there is a hidden critique of some of the socializing that took place at this year's event. And this is something I do not understand. I made many valuable connections during my first visit to this event. The very fact that I could show up in a big city knowing two people who were going to be attending, and then leave feeling like I had connected with a community of like-minded individuals, well, that was an amazing and touching thing.

Because some people posted pics of some of the social events instead of writing wordy critiques afterwards on their websites, well, was there supposed to be some kind of proof needed that people got intellectual value out of attending? Maybe because people have been talking about how much fun TypeCon was is simply a sign that they valued who they met and wanted to share that with their peers. So why would there be negative feelings about the fact that we had a good time?

Armin -- saying you "don't know" why it wasn't as good isn't constructive at all, but you got everyone talking. This will be a pretty productive thread.

Joshua,

Armin didn't say anything about ATypI, so I wonder why your response was all about comparing TypeCon and ATypI? I don't think Armin is suggesting that TypeCon should be more like ATypI.

I've been to ten ATypI conferences and one TypeCon, in Minneapolis, which I thought was very good. I've also been to both Linotype TypoTechnica events, numerous Unicode conferences, a How conference, and several independent type and design conferences, most recently in Thessaloniki. I tend to judge conferences on the basis of their content, organisation and general level of engagement. I thought TypeCon in Minneapolis scored highly in all these areas, and it was only the proximity of the Thessaloniki conference (which scored very highly on the basis of content and engagement), that dissuaded me from going to San Franciso.

Now, I happen to dislike drunken trainwrecks, so I'm even gladder that I chose to go to Thessaloniki and not San Francisco.

I have never been at an ATypI conference, but I was at last year's TypeCon, and this year's, too, and I really enjoyed both of them.

I feel that I learned quite a bit at this year's lectures, Armin. I missed two or three, because people do get tired and there's only so much you can take in at a time (and, okay, I wanted to see the type crit). But I have to agree with Cheshire Dave that not all of the conference can or will be interesting to everyone. Having said that, I am starting to think that maybe 5 days was too much, and perhaps this led to people feeling tired. I don't know... just thinking out loud.

I'm not so sure that I would enjoy a 2-track event... You might start to feel that you were missing out on a good lecture taking place elsewhere... But I've never been to a multi-track conference, what do I know?

Last but not least, part of the enjoyment of the conference, for me, is that I get to meet people and make new friends. It wouldn't be the same without that.

Hmm... I don't think most of the people there experienced it as a drunken trainwreck. It seemed about the same as Minneapolis from where I was standing in that regard.

I did think that the Saturday night party venue left a lot to be desired. We had to walk what seemed like ten blocks and then stand outside for an hour waiting to use the elevator (which only held about 6 people at a time). It was also very difficult to carry on a conversation because of the loudness of the music and poor accoustics of the room. I was very happy to find out about the roof. At Minneapolis, you could simply walk out of the ballroom if you wanted to talk to someone.

I thought the vendor area was much better this year. The sessions seemed comparable. I think it would have been better to start off with something like last year's Matthew Carter keynote rather than an awards presentation.

A few thoughts about the talks this year, from the perspective of a first time type conference attendee.

8:30 in the morning is an ungodly hour of the morning but some of the best speakers - ken barber and underware - were scheduled in that slot. Perhaps this was to encourage us to get up early and take in the whole day. To me, it meant I had to choose between getting to know other type nuts at night or attending morning sessions. I would have preferred to do both but I ended up skipping all the 8:30 sessions.

Crazy party photos aside, type aficionados can be a timid bunch and a certain energy seemed to be lacking from the sessions, especially earlier in the conference. Maybe typecon needs two tracks for smaller cozier talks? moving the party earlier in the week? summer-camp style icebreakers? bigger nametags? Have Tony and Caio Silva MC the sessions?

I gotta agree with Hrant that the Nikko was too fancy a venue. The beer cost $7 a bottle and the bathrooms were impeccable. It gave the conference airs of professionalism rather than the informal gathering I expected.

I may sound like a whiner, but don't get me wrong - Typecon was awesome. There were a number of things that alone were worth the price of admission.
- Being amazed by Bickham's use of Opentype.
- The Young Guns panel. Talk about a kick in the •••, even if the old guys already stole all our best ideas.
- The Ken Barber & Ed Benguiat repartee.
- Seeing moneyed interests duke it out at the lunch DRM session, a candid introduction to the business side of type.
- Above all, finally giving faces to the names of fellow typophilers.

Armin, I'm a little torn too. Compared to some other conferences
I've attended, it lacks some overall pollish and attention to
presentation. Other conferences are on a schedule, you get a
sense that if you're not running to the next thing that you're
missing out.

On the other hand, and unlike any other conference, TypeCon
feels like familiy. Few conferences (maybe especially design
conferences) can do that. But maybe that's the problem, maybe
it's too comfortable - too loose. I'll leave that as an open
question.

TypeCon was not a drunken trainwreck. It just so happens that
the bulk of the photographs surfacing show it that way. The pics
you're seeing are from the last night of the 'con. There were a
few moments that evening when I wondered if someone was
filming Wild On TypeCon or something. (Hrant that was my
jacket with your dinner on it.)

I also agree that multiple "tracks" would be great. The more you
have to make hard choices about which lectures or panels to
see, the better.

The vendor area was great. The quantity and the quality
were both stunning.

The gallery was great again this year, but unfortunately it always
seems tucked back away somewhere away from the people. You
feel like you're going to miss something if you actually take time
to look at the gallery. Maybe that's just as it should be.

An aside: What did you all think of the 2 evenings beforehand
with the AIGA there. Was this just the AIGA getting on the band-
wagon at the last minute or did it generate more attention in the
local design community? I'd be interested to know what the
organizers think. I know the sheer number of events with
different admission structures confused more than one person.

Oh, yeah, and I'm definitely looking forward to NYC.

I thought TypeCon was a good conference, but not a great one. A single track conference is difficult because not everything will appeal to everyone. Inviting speakers is always something of a crap shoot, and you do get disappointing talks occasionally. Having helped organize a couple of conferences I don't think TypeCon was loose at all. It ran pretty well and the rotating (intentional?) moderators was nice. One track also makes it more important to not fall behind, but I've never been to a conference that ran on schedule.

With a two track conference you have less of that, though there's the problem of wanting to hear two talks at the same time. I always have this problem with ATypI conferences, but you do get a sense of "better bang for your buck" even if you can't take it all in.

There were several very good talks, but there was a definite difference between serious and entertaining ones as one presenter pointed out. It might have been helpful to have some of the smaller workshops going on at the same time as talks, and there's also room to have some smaller, more informal talks going on. There could be more breadth perhaps, but then you get stuff that's only marginally related like some of the SVA Modernism conferences.

The other aspect is the TypeCon audience. It has a very broad range in age and a broader group focus. I like the age span which gives it a very different feel from other type conferences. The pictures of revelers on the internet is just one aspect of youth and the invention of tiny digital cameras and picture phones. It does make us look less serious as a group, but so what?

I liked the hotel. Yes it was expensive to eat and drink, but no more so than Minneapolis. I've been to low rent conferences and wished for nicer accomodations, but maybe that's my age. And I thought 8:30 was fine for a starting time. Ungodly?

One comment about the accommodations. It is impossible to please everyone all of the time. It is far easier, I believe, to please everyone if the cost is reasonable and the rooms clean. I for one am happy with the Nikko and know that the choice wasn't done with much thought.

Another comment about the sessions. The more it is mentioned the more I wonder if two tracks might not be good. Or as someone (Armin?) suggested earlier 1 and 1/2 tracks. The single track for the big names/big topics and the two tracks (maybe on the last day?) for the more focused topics (unicode for instance, or history of the serif).

Typo Berlin had one main track, and two sub-tracks (one which was supposed to be workshop-like). It was my only conference to date, and although it was fun, I found it difficult to socialize there; many of the guest speakers were also unapproachable. But the audience was very young, I thought (young maybe being a little older? German students tend to be in their mid-20s, not 19).

So, from my completely irrelevant POV, it sounds like TypeCon was almost the total opposite of this year's TypoBerlin (and I would have probably liked TypeCon more ). Was anybody here at both?

I'll second that. All attendees are very approachable.

I think the names need to be larger next year, or maybe I'm finally getting too old for small type. I also think avatars would be fun but there would have to be a deadline respected by all or you'll get a default unisex avatar.

At ATypI in Rome there were four tracks, which I thought was too many. In Vancouver I wanted a maximum of two tracks, but the lecture spaces at the venue meant that we couldn't get all the attendees into two rooms, so we had three tracks, and sometimes had a workshop running concurrently. It just about worked, I think, although trying to balance the three tracks so that they would appeal to appropriately sized groups of attendees was a real challenge. I still think two tracks plus workshops is optimal. The tracks should run in tandem and be close enough that people can comfortably get from one to the other between sessions. The workshops do not need to run in tandem with the presentation tracks, which means more time can be taken. In Vancouver, we let the workshop instructors determine how long those sessions should be, and they varied.

I hope this is helpful to someone, somewhere, planning a conference programme.

ATypI Vancouver, was for me, the best type conference I

Si is right, we are reading, and reviewing all the feedback so we can make next year's conference better. The feedback so far overall has been overwhelmingly positive, and we are pleased about that. Please keep the ideas and feedback coming, as it is essential to creating an event that is accessible to as many people as possible. While we can't please everyone all the time, it doesn't stop us from trying.

There will be a post-conference survey available to TypeCon2004 attendees soon, which we hope will further help us improve the conference and all our activities.

TypeCon should be called. Yank's Type-Con..grilled with butter...

Vince ... why so ... hmmm ... negative? TypeCon happens to be a .ORG in the U.S., but those who attended represented a much broader range of countries.

Mr. Tamye Riggs,
check out this artist,
http://www.johnahiigli.com/
maybe he has to do with typography
and it could dove tail well in TypeCon 2005.
"TypeCon," if I read it "ConType" it means
"WithType" in Italian, "AvecType," etc., funny.
Best,
AS

While I haven't been to TypeCon, I've had a little experience
with a wide variety of type conferences (I attended one a year
during my time in FontShop: Monotype 92, ATypI 93, Fuse 94
and 95).

First of all I'd like to recommend Armin for starting up this thread:
there's little chance in improving something if all everyone
does is tap each other on the back*. I just regret that at some
point he felt he was "sounding like a complete a$ hole"
which clearly isn't the case. It's his comments which got this
very interesting discussion going (hey I didn't attend and
I'm still reading every single comment, which I'm sure A LOT
of people are or have been doing. Good call Armin! )
BTW regarding the smileys: they are not fool-proof unfortunately...

* Don't misunderstand me: there needs to be some back-tapping
as it has clearly been successful and much appreciated by the
attendance, but it shouldn't be restricted to that.

Uh-oh, Nona problem. Be back later.

AS, Mr. Tamye Riggs is a Ms.

Oh thanks,
I apologize Ms. Tamye Riggs.
Maybe your comes from "Tamara"?
I looked up my dictionary and it says
"tamar," in Hebrew, is the date fruit palm tree.
Best,
AS

One great thing about NYC from my point of view is that it is about half the price to fly there from the UK that it was going to be to get to San Fransisco. So maybe more Europeans will be able to make the trip.

Jim
===

I've started saving for my air fare and hotel accomodation.
If everything goes according to plan, you can count me in!

>TypeCon should be called. Yank's Type-Con..grilled with butter...

Vinnie, you still have people in NYC, correct? Perhaps you could stay with one of them. Jim, makes a good point - may well be cheaper for W. Europeans to come to TypeCon than those of us on the West Coast, esp. if the exchange rate stays the same.

yeah! yvesie is coming!!

I really wanted to attend TypeCon--I'll be there next year though, Ohio to NY is much easier for me to pull off than Ohio to CA.

Hey Hrant, which Johanna Drucker book, 'The Alphabetic Labyrinth', right? Can you direct me to the page or general section that contains that information?

I think it would be helpful if the organizers would discuss some of the problems they encountered. It would give everyone a better perspective on the situation. How happy were they with how things turned out?

>>One big difference between ATypI and TypeCon is that speakers and workshop leaders get free admission to the event if they choose to accept it. More tracks, shorter sessions and more workshops would equal more free passes.

My wife is involved in major, international conferences for her company (not for profit) and nobody gets a free ride ever. Their conferences are sponsored by major corporations who pony up 50-100K and the conference fee is still very expensive.

Conferences aren't cheap to do. There are a lot of minor expenses that add up quickly. TypeCon is very reasonable as a conference and I was perfectly willing to pay full fee as a speaker. I'm not trying to be holier than thou here, but I know from experience that somebody has to put up money to make these things happen. One conference I was involved in ran only because one person, with mucho money, picked up all the leftover expenses as a gesture of support.

>I think it would be helpful if the organizers would discuss some of the problems they encountered. It would give everyone a better perspective on the situation. How happy were they with how things turned out?

From what I

> nobody gets a free ride ever.

Not even speakers? I think that only really works in conferences where the expenses of a given participant are paid by a rich employer, not himself. On the other hand, I think maybe ATypI will be able to get away with it because it's such a small, insular community, and the bulk of the people on a conference program would go to the conference anyway, so basically they lose less money by "forcing" their admission fee. In comparison, since TypeCon admission is so low, I think there's more room to maneuver - and that bodes well for speaker/program variety.

Plus there's a cultural thing going on too. Jorge de Buen told me for example that South Americans shy away from organizing international conferences because they feel obliged to pay for the speakers' expenses (and not just admission either), but know they can't afford it.

> somebody has to put up money

Well, that's true. Like at the close of TC98 Bob Colby had a panicked look on his face, because the conference was going to end up costing him a lot of money, personally. In the end he broke even, but only because: he got maybe 1/4 of the participants to become SoTA members, although I guess that wasn't much dough; all but one* of the speakers agreed to pay for his own expenses.

* Don't ask me who it was - I still don't know. But I think I know who knows.

> like a wedding

With one huge difference: the day after your wedding is the happiest day of your life, but the day after TypeCon is very sad.

hhp

George, loved your presentation. The early sans faces are a subject of great interest to me. And I was also able to pick up a copy of "The Nymph and the Grot" at the auction. Thanks for your comment on:

>More tracks, shorter sessions and more workshops would equal more free passes.

...to which I would add:

There are many variables which apply to both conferences: how far the speaker travels, whether he/she works for a company that can afford to pay for them (or is a sponsor -- and how large of a sponsor); how desirable they are to the conference as a speaker -- both for content and "drawing power", and so on. I think it's fair to say that both SOTA and ATYPI will waive admission fees for a speaker if they think it's absolutely necessary, but would rather not.

As someone who has been a local TypeCon organizer (Toronto, 2002) I can tell you that there is a fair amount of hit-and-miss in getting a program of speakers together. Many people we approached turned down the opportunity to speak, for various reasons, including financial. Some never even knew what they missed -- I contacted the Toronto publisher of Alberto Manguel (A History of Reading) and was told "he lives in France" and was given his agent's name. That sounded expensive, so I left it at that.

Despite being on the SOTA board, there are always plenty of surprises for me in the program every year. That's because the local organizers play such a large role in determining the program. I think the local content is always fascinating, and this year's was no exception -- Victor Moscoso and Rick Griffin, amazing stuff. With an an emphasis on lettering, yes, there was not so much pure typography (eg text type, Thomas), but that's the way things turned out, and what gave this conference its personality. I'm sure New York will have its own flavor.

Emory Douglas, what a profoundly different perspective: asked who his design influences were, he replied he had none, he was just getting the message out.