Basic.

Yes, we kem.

No, we kernot - no spec ;-)

Well it's just got to be set in Gotham.

There shouldn't be a comma after YES.

Obama tended to pause, so I think the comma is appropriate.

I think he paused less and less as the statement become more of a slogan, and in the numerous placards that I saw in the news coverage of rallies I don't recall ever seeing a comma.

In the case of this project, I think a comma changes the emphasis of the statement in a way that makes the parallel to the Obama slogan less obvious.

a comma shouldn't be used to indicate a pause

Note: 'pause between parts of a sentence'. It isn't a very good definition, but it at least gets the notion that what a comma indicates is the structure of the sentence not a pause per se. When we talk, we punctuate structure with pauses, so commas in writing and pauses in speaking serve parallel purposes. The sequence of words 'yes we can' may be uttered as either a single clause or as two clauses: 'yes we can' or 'yes, we can'. How we read those two versions differs, as does how we would say them, both in terms of pause and emphasis. I watched again Obama's election night speech on YouTube, and it seemed clear to me that he was saying 'Yes we can', not 'Yes, we can'.

ChrisL

I think that definition of comma is a little liberal.

Yes, but aren't we all a little more liberal these days? :-)

IDK Craig, I have not given up ”more than” in favor of ”over“ yet.

Comma-unist.

Your point? Commarad.

Commatose on this one!

Michael

This is unrelated, but I just spent way too long trying to make the scroll bar appear on the plural plural website.

(He's not really)

Chris...

I give up, are the two warriors fighting over whether it is acute comma?

Michael

It says Kern in Greek as in "Ode on a Grecian Kern" :-)

ChrisL

Ha, I thought you were making some pun based on "weak urn", but then I didn't see a crack.

Thought it a take on the old joke...

How much's a Greek urn?

About 10 euro a font ;-)

(rimshot)

Better than Drachmas :-)

ChrisL

We were wondering why there is no comma on the official button.
And we are expecting Gotham on a lot of shirts.

Maybe it just sounds more forceful without a comma.

Bob the Builder may have trademarked the phrase with the comma, hence Obama avoiding it.

Maybe it does sound more forceful, but I think it's also aesthetic. A comma would make the badge look alot less sweet I think.

detail:

thanks Jos!

- Scott

Let me get this straight -- you folks are arguing over a stupid comma (which, by the way, is grammatically correct) while missing the fact that this "contest" is a total scam. Two t-shirts for the winner and they can still use ANY entry as much as they want? Are you really that hard up for a shirt?

It's called self-respect and you should try it sometime. Until you do, bastards will keep ripping off designers.

Lighten up, Bergie. None of us actually entered the contest :-)

ChrisL

Bergie AKA "phantom duck" makes a valid point. :-)

I agree, Bergie is making a valid point about contests, but forgets that we're typophiles... it's in our nature to discuss stupid commas! ;-)

P.S. Nice design, Scott Sullivan!

AHEM two American Apparrell tee shirts that I made are totally worth fifteen minutes of beer induced design & thanks Ricardo!

- Scott

Commas aside, here is the deal: we (Plural) talked extensively about what else to offer the winning entry, or what to do with the proceeds of sales. We thought about giving the proceeds to a charity, to promote design, or to share it with the winner.

We just did not come to a conclusion. And we don't have any money. So if you have suggestions of what to do, if the shirt actually sells, we would love to hear from you. Leave your comment here or on the Plural site. And we will make an update with where the money from the sales will go.

We can also leave that up to the winner to decide.
If the shirt sells: money goes to
a) his pocket
b) someone else's pocket

We don't want to rip any one off, we just don't have any thing else to give. Other than bragging rights, and a cool shirt.

Hope to see some of these tees in the contest, they are awesome.

Now, according to Bergie, I am a bastard that rips off designers. And, since I am a designer myself, I should try self-respect, sometime, to stop ripping myself off.

– Renata

Renata, what's the point of the contest? Why not simply design the shirt yourselves? (I quite like your Bracket T, by the way.)

Asking people to essentially donate their time and talent works when there's a larger purpose in mind -- raising awareness/funds for a good cause, for example.

But coming from a design firm, this seems like a lazy way to add another item to the Store page on your site.

A few concepts I tried over the weekend.
Critics are welcome.

-
Concept_A:
YES WE KERN: EVERY TIME, ALL THE TIME

-
Concept_B:
S V KERN

Concept_C:
CMYK

marcox,
The point was to do something together. Since the statement starts with "we". The plural team thought it might be nice to open the design to a broader "we".

– Renata

Although the term "Kern" refers to the spacing between two letters, but the ultimate goal of kerning is to find a balance between negative and the positive ares in a typographic composition—hence, making −ve = +ve.

Concept_D:
− = +

-
PS: The typeface used in all the concepts above called Engrez, my own font! :D.

Renata,

You're using the Typophile forum for your design firm to profit from shirt sales. And you're also lazy enough to use the very tee template we created for our first tee contest. (It's the same file, except where you deleted the T mark and inserted your pl.) I don't like where this is going.

If imitation is the best form of flattery, what is copying?

If you host your own for profit contest please do it on your own site and we would be happy for you to post a call for entries in the Typophile news feed.

Renata, I see that your plural blog says you couldn't find a natural way to let users submit images... Email typophile [at] punchcut [dot] com and let's come up with a better solution for you guys.

Joe, Sorry if I crossed the line. Please feel free to delete this post.
I did not mean to use or abuse this forum. I just was too excite about the idea and wanted to open the invitation.

Whoa, this is out of control. If you've ever met Renata, you'd know that all of your cynicism is ridiculous. Renata is probably going to silk screen the final shirts herself because it's just what she and her colleagues like to do. That's how their other shirts are delivered, sealed with a little hand-crafted love. Do you really think there is a large profit margin for the time spent silk screening shirts by hand? I don't. Look at their web site and their flickr profile. They're just type enthusiasts like the rest of us. I am a friend and former colleague of these folks. They're definitely not scam artists or plagiarists. Just typophiles. I think their admiration of this license plate supports my case:
wood typ license plate

Totally off topic, but I loved your avatar Michael.

Peace.

During the campaign, it seemed there was just as much focus on the fact that Bush was going to be out of office as on who would be replacing him.

This design lets the buyer choose their own message. If you supported Bush and Barack, get a white tee. If you absolutely hated Bush get the black, and if you weren't too keen on Bush but love Barack get any other color.