>>>> personal art & photography
http://babydahl.co.uk
>>>> Behance profile
http://behance.net/babydahl

I’m not sure what’s causing the color shift, as there could be several different issues at play, but proofing CMYK on screen is really difficult (since your screen is displaying colors in RGB). To be able to get close, you need to calibrate your monitor, and you should also check with your printer to see what color profiles they use. I don’t think the pantone swatches in any software are super accurate when compared to the paper swatch books, so you’re going to be best off trying to calibrate your printer, and then printing stuff out.

Finally, I’ll ask this before someone else does (and this doesn’t really relate to your problem). Why are you designing a flyer in photoshop? Aside from the fact that photoshop really isn’t the easiest environment to do something like that, you are not going to get clean text doing that.

My monitor is calibrated. Also, I have Pantone swatch books. As for using photoshop, some of us don’t have heaps of money to splash out of various design suites. I use photoshop because I love it and I can’t afford indesign as I have invested my money on more important things. It’s about making the most of what you have, and photoshop is more than capable of doing this.

If you are working for print, you should probably include an ICC profile anyway. So tick that box the next time if that increases your color accuracy.

Personally I have my RGB set to Adobe RGB (1998) and my CMYK to Euroscale Coated V2. It is not a fool proof method, but as long as I keep it consistent (i.e. have all software set to the same profiles, as well as my monitor itself), the results are quite acceptable and predictable.
But it is important to keep all software on the same settings, so Photoshop, InDesign and Illustrator, but also Acrobat Reader/Pro or anything else you might be using.

As to what you can expect to see when it gets to print, that depends completely on your printer. Most (professional) printers work with a color calibrated environment. If you want to know what the results will be, you will need to calibrate your monitor to their profiles and also use their ICC’s when working. You will need to have a perfectly color calibrated workflow, which is quite if not very difficult. So since you will work with something like Adobe RGB and whatever CMYK profile is default in your region of the planet, there will always be a slight difference between what you see at your end and the printed result.

Also, you cannot accurately proof CMYK on screen, although a major color shift does indicate that something isn’t right. The best way to judge the colors, without going down the calibrated workflow road, is to order a color proof from your printers, see what happens, and change things if it isn’t to your liking.

Quincunx, your advice is much appreciate and has cleared most of it up. I did get in touch with solopress.co.uk and they said not to add any profiles to my document as it just causes problems. Don’t quite understand why they would say this.

I am from england, so maybe a euro ICC profile will be best for me. I’ll give that one a try to see what happens.

Thanks again.

...they said not to add any profiles to my document as it just causes problems.

In dealings between designers and printers, it’s good for the designer to approve a proof from the printer.
Then, when the job is run, the designer should do a press check to make sure that the finished product looks as good as, or better, than the proof.
When you’re looking at a press proof, don’t make a snap decision.
Take it away into a (relatively) quiet corner and consider it for a few minutes.

>so my working spaces was set to Monitor RGB

Problem. Never set your working space to Monitor RGB. Adobe RGB is a usually pretty good choice, a larger gamut than sRGB and not as wide as ProPhoto. Your monitor profile is strictly for your video card.

Their advice to not add profiles is ludicrous. In color management a profile needs to be embedded for a good conversion to take place. The profile conversion needs to know what profile it’s coming from in order to work correctly.

Nothing makes me madder than an image without an embedded profile. If that happens I first assign a profile based on what looks best and then convert to whatever is appropriate for the job.

Good Luck!

pbc

All ideas, theories and statements are subject to change without notice.

Nick - I won’t be able to get a proof as it’s a litho press.

Paul - I do now use adobe 1998 RGB because this is pretty much the standard. Yup, if you ask them they will say the same thing. Apparently their printers don’t use ICC profiles either. I totally agree with what you are saying:-) So, is it ok to assign any profile to a document regardless of the use of your design? I pretty much liked the Japan newspaper profile, but wasn’t sure if it would be ok to use.

Use a color profile appropriate for your devices (displays, scanners, etc.) and printers! So if your printer uses the EuroScale printing standards, use that. Don’t use a profile different then the intended device you want your artwork shown or printed on! As you’re not going to be printing in Japan on newspaper, don’t use the Japanese newspaper profile!

Finally, as for your printer who’s telling you to not even bother with color profiles and won’t give you a proof, I’d really consider using another printer.

I won’t be able to get a proof as it’s a litho press.

?
Baby, you need a mentor.
Find an experienced local designer whose work you respect, who’s dealt with local printers, and ask if you can tag along and audit how he/she handles the production process.

Bemerx25, Thanks for that advice. Lol, I thought that to.:-) And I won’t be going to that printers either. Nick, I think that is best. I will speak to the guy who has commissioned me to design this flyer as he has dealt with local printers. I’ll let you know what happens.

Using color profiles is not a matter of what you like, but what is appropriate for the device like bemerx25 said, in this case the output device.

But if you are faced with a situation where they either won’t tell you or claim ignorance, I will embed a generic profile (like SWOP V2 for a magazine ad or a newsprint profile for a newspaper). They can always strip the profile out if they are genuinely not using profiles (if they aren’t they are in the stone ages) or if they are going to convert it at least they have a source profile to work with.

pbc

All ideas, theories and statements are subject to change without notice.

This might seem like an odd suggestion, but if you are on a Mac try the “capture” widget. I’ve had better luck with that myself.

Just work in RGB (Adobe RGB or CIE-RGB or any other large-gamut RGB) and let the printer do the conversion. Provide them with a PSD.

. . .
Bert Vanderveen BNO

>> I pretty much liked the Japan newspaper profile, but wasn’t sure if it would be ok to use

You should always use the default profile for your region if no profile is specified. Especially for color. Color profiles are generally made with sunlight intensity and color temperature on your area of the planet in mind. Lighting conditions in different places on the planet have a different effect on how printed colors look.

I don’t know the specifics, but for example: in Japan more yellow might be present in the light than in the UK. Or whatever color. So that will affect how colors look. That’s one of the reasons why different areas have different ICC profiles; they take those differences into account.

Also, you should pretty much always ask for a proof, before the actual printing run is started. Most good printers either have a proofing press, or even just a good inkjet printer calibrated to mimic their actual production presses, on which they can make reasonably cheap color proofs.
I cannot count how many times I had to change something to my designs when studying a color proof. If your printer doesn’t use a color calibrated working environment, or can’t make proofs... I would look for a different printer. :)

Dude, where’s the type?

hhp