Well, maybe not "know" and "best" - at most "think" and "good". :-)

For a detective story I think any Garamond would look somewhat awkward (although few people would actually complain explicitly). What to use instead: could you give more details, like more info about the story, how long it is, etc.?

Garamond is more appropriate to historical topics, but then you have to say what target age it's for - because below about 10 years of age children don't read very immersively, so something like ITC Garamond (shudder) would actually be good.

The printer: more than imaging language, resolution is your biggest concern. From what James Montalbano has said, on a "desktop" you can only get a true idea of the final result by using a 2400 dpi laser (because the lower the resolution the more gain in the letterforms, throwing off the color and texture). If that can't happen, you might do some early testing of one key page directly on lino/velox, then work "semi-blindly" from there - pretty normal procedure anyway.

hhp

Aku,
Are you asking which of the faces you already have to use or are you asking what is the best solution for the job at hand? If the latter then we need to know more about the storyline, place time, etc. (as Hrant mentioned above).
In my opinion, the actual typeface used for the body text has less to do with conveying the intent of the subject matter than the display fonts selected and how the typography is designed on the page. Those of us here on this list are far more likely to be sensitive to typographic nuances than the average mystery novel reader so you can choose a good neutral text face with good readability from your collection and focus your design abilities on the front matter, chapter dividers, and cover to convey the meaning of the content.

ChrisL

The detective story is actually an old-fashioned soap opera set in current time, yes it has a killer but no detective. It is targeted for the middle-aged and elderly. It is not very long. In front of me I have an old UFO book "Sky people". It is set "in 12 on 13 point Intertype Baskerville". Looks very clear to my eye. Yes, no Garamond for the detective story - perhaps 11/14 point ITC New Baskerville would do the trick?

I intend to use the faces I already have. However, if you experts come out with a clearly superior choice, I could reverse my decision. I am a spineless weakling!

The historical novel is targeted for girls of 9-12 years. It is set in ancient Egypt of the pharaohs but with time travel. How about Zapf Calligraphic 801 (=Palatino) for this - it would be easy to read but would it be boring too? Do boys and girls prefer the same fonts?

Just for curiosity - what you would choose for:
1) Farewell my lovely (by Raymond Chandler)
2) Pet sematary (by Stephen King)
3) Space Odyssey 2001 (by Arthur C. Clarke)
4) pocket size biography of a fashion designer

Thanks! Aku

The detective story: Baskerville is certainly a great "adult" (no, not that kind :-) face for a short novel. Maybe a bit too "rational", but if it smells like a detective story then maybe just right. Which cut of Baskerville? That's where the usage experts are needed...

The historical novel: Palatino might actually be very fitting, since its somewhat large x-height (compared to its more bookish sister, Aldus) might be just the thing for the transition from non- to immersive reading. The main problem with Palatino though is that it's too common. So maybe Trump or Kis would indeed be better overall, although you'd have to set them a bit big (like 12).

> Do boys and girls prefer the same fonts?

There might actually be some empirical evidence about this, but:
- It will be hard to locate.
- It's unlikely to be very reliable.

I wouldn't get that detailed in font choice "context" if I were you - it's quicksand.

> what you would choose for: ....

Hey, I could waste days on that... :-)

hhp

Sherlock

For historical fiction, why not a typeface that is itself an historical fiction?

By that I mean one that is not a revival, but done in the style of a bygone era.

And depending on how much anachronism there is in the story, that could effect the decision also.

For instance, Storm's "Sebastian" is an anachronistic historical fiction -- a sans serif from the 18th century -- so would be suitable for stories involving modern gadgets "time-transported" into the past.

5{erstand why the chosen type in any way should interpret its content.

You're being rather severe with "in any way" -- surely the typography (and that includes the choice of face) can resonate with the subject matter without being heavy-handed?

Imagine that, somethink Nick and I actually agree on.

Indeed, if the typeface choice doesn't need to resonate with its content in any way, we wouldn't need more than a handful of functional typefaces in the world.

I believe that the typeface choice shouldn't *get in the way* of the content, but that doesn't mean it can't *enhance* the content. That's sort of the purpose of having typefaces, in my mind.

Cheers,

T

Wow, now we've got a highly implausible three-way agreement! :-)

Fredrik, this TOTALLY deserves its own thread - could you please start one - maybe taking the opportunity to explain why you think fonts can't help the content.

hhp

Hrant

. . . maybe taking the opportunity to explain why you think fonts can't help the content.

I think a font can't help a content is the content doesn't want.
Something like addicts.
The typographic designer is a good message,
and the medium.
I also will enjoy the own thread about book fonts.

< . . .maybe taking the opportunity to explain why you think fonts can't help the content. <

Perhaps it is the Masimo Vignelli philosophy? Where would he have been without Helvetica and Bodoni? :-)

ChrisL

Somewhere in the Alps making cheese?

but the cheese holes would be quite precise Helvetica "O"s flush-left, ragged-right down the exact square block of cheese. And it would have been very beautifully done. :-)

LOL!

http://www.logvin.ru/russian/portfolio/posters/large_pic/24.jpg

LOL
This must a poster on the death of Swiss typgraphy.

:-)

Thanks for interesting answers. I still wonder should I tinker with the tracking setting in Indesign. My understanding is that if I use the default tracking (zero value), the body text will be much too tight for languages other than English. How can I find the correct setting - is there a rule of thumb?

Interesting - Where did you hear/read that optimal tracking depends on language?

hhp

Well, for example Berthold offers special BQ versions of many fonts. According to Berthold's web site:
"The Berthold BQ and Adobe Berthold versions are derived from the same data source and so the character outlines are almost identical. The metrics (spacing and kerning) will differ considerably as the Berthold BQ versions have extended kerning for European languages (German, French, Italian etc.)."
(Obviously English is not considered an European language by Berthold).
This could be just sales talk, but if it isn't, then I should either buy the BQ version or increase the tracking?

Oh, but the kerning for European languages isn't there to tighten/loosen the overall setting, but to address some problem pairs that are not addressed in lower-ASCII. For example an Adobe font might have a pair for "Ty" but not "T

I see.
I didn't know that B is disreputable... I wonder what is the story behind this.

Follow-up to my original question: I'm about to use Sabon 11/14 for the detective story and ITC New Baskerville 12/15 for the historical fantasy novel for children. (My 8-year-old daughter much preferred Baskerville over Palatino).

When in doubt pick Sabon or Baskerville.

BTW, England is an European island.

I'd still like to see how Trump Medieval looks in printed books - is it ever used today? It looks perhaps a bit masculine to my eye, like it has been cut with axe.

Yes, Trump Medieval is used periodically in books, and I think it can work well when handled sensitively.

I noticed it recently being used in a series of young adult novels by Gary L. Blackwood, the Shakespeare Stealer series.

Look for them next time you're in a book store and this will give you some idea of how it can work.

-- K.

@Aku:
Go into a protestantic church in Germany :-)
The

>>BTW, England is an island. :-)
>> >>BTW, England is an European island

I don't want to be pedantic, or to disrupt the thread, but England isn't an island.
That would be Britain that you're thinking of.
Britain is an island ;-)

I think Britain includes North Ireland. Therefore it cannot be an island.

At the risk of being pedantic and disrupting the thread, this is the correct designation, as it appears on passports, etc.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Nick is right - Northern Ireland is the difference between Britain and the UK.
(Not 'North Ireland', though, as that would include bits of the Republic of Ireland. The wording is opposite to the difference between 'South Africa' and 'Southern Africa', but in both cases, one is a specific political area, so the other refers to a geographical area).

Oh sh1t - now I've been pedantic and disrupted the thread.