The signature script is nice. However, the R seems a little out of place. Alone, the R doesn't resemble an R, you might want to play with the curve from the top of the R to the bottom of the leg as it extends under the u.

For the tag... I'm assuming you're using Copperplate Gothic, which is a nice choice. I'd move the tag below the signature, centered and shrink the size to almost half the width of the signature. The space between the signature and the tag should be equal to about 1.5 the tag's size. (So, if the tag was 12 points, the space between the tag and the signature would be 18 points.) Centering it, will also give the signature a nice balancing point.

The color seems very light. If you were to convert that to grey scale, it would probably be equal to 10-15% black, that's too light. Consider bumping up the saturation.

It has a nice look to it, it's really at the tweak stage. I'd be interested to see your other iterations before they picked this one.

Double Post - Nothing to see here.

I like the signature, except that it's not a signature, but, then again, no one needs to know that. ;0)

'Fine' seems superfluous. IMHO, if you have to *say* that it's 'fine' or 'quality' or 'high-end' then it's not. ;0)

Copperplate is OK, but just OK. I'd strive for something a bit different.

I like the R a great deal; it's masculine. I agree that the tag could be darker, but I actually like it aligned right. It balances the curve of the script lettering, and if it's centered, the script may look lopsided.

Overall, it's very nice work. I worked many years in five diamond catering, and it's refreshing to see a brand without an ornate crest or bow tie. I think the extra touch of sophistication you're looking for may be found in the media - 100% cotton paper and embossed letterpress printing.

Eileen

Thanks for the great comments everyone!

The "R" is actually pulled from Russell's (the owner) signature. After reading your comments I want to be sure that it (1) reads as an "R" and (2) doesn't seem too awkward with the rest of the type treatment.

I agree, aluminum, if you have to say that you are "cool" then you just aren't. We went through a name change with them and they just couldn't lose the Fine Catering.

I'd love some typeface suggestions for the "fine catering" tagline -- I'm okay with the Copperplate but I don't love it and feel like there could be something nicer out there that I'm totally overlooking.

How could I have not even considered letterpress for this logo? It was totally off of my radar. Thanks for the suggestion it is really meant for it. I do agree, though -- the strength in the logo is closely tied to how it is held up by the medium's it is printed on and the other surrounding design elements.

Perhaps a humanist sans like Topaz : http://typography.com/fonts/font_overview.php?productLineID=100025

or a condensed sans like Knockout: http://typography.com/fonts/font_overview.php?productLineID=100013

They're both simple, but have charming letterforms.

I also like Eileen's suggestion for letterpress, but remember this will also be on the side of van's and probably embroidered onto chef's jackets. So it needs to work in a multitude of mediums.

For the record, I'm OK with the 'R' too.

I'd second both of Asvetic's suggestions for the tagline typeface.

And maybe put some push back on the client. Encourage them to consider dropping the WORD 'fine' and go with 'fine' implementation ala nice papers, letterpress printing, etc.

Consider the most elegant restaurants. They don't SAY 'restaurant' on their sign. People just KNOW it's an elegant eatery.

I vote for Topaz! It feels embossed even on my crummy laptop monitor.

Topaz wins it for me. Agree wholeheartedly about dropping the 'fine'. I would also be a bit worried about the border. Looks very nice in the application above but do consider ALL the applications this will have to lend itself to. Letterheads, vans, jackets etc etc.

Like it! For the tagline, the gallant and not seen very often Versa comes in my mind. Especially set in small caps only. Check www.ourtype.be

In return, what is this nice script?

The more I look at it, the R is starting to grow on me. It's the simple fact that the stroke is consistent. It doesn't vary in weight (thick to thin) as many of the other characters do. Perhaps adding a little stroke weight variation would be enough to make it blend better with the rest of the signature script.

I worked a bit with the stroke weight of the R -- hopefully that will integrate it a bit more.

Can you compare two tagline treatments for me? I'm really just splitting hairs, I think. I can't decide: (Copperplate on top Topaz on bottom)

I love the Topaz face -- I was concerned that the shaded font wouldn't read well when the logo was scaled down so I used the background version instead. I think the height of the font will help readability when scaled and if it is scaled really small I'll lose the "fine catering" tagline. Similarly, though, I am worried that the serif's of Copperplate won't read well when scaled down. Perhaps that was my initial hesitation with Copperplate. Does anyone have a preference?

The script typeface is Cezanne. Really pretty script.

Sackers Gothic or Blair are arguably sans versions of Copperplate.

Knockout has numerous widths that would also be legible.

David

Sorry, but the R is worse now. The curve of the back is too ridge now and the top bowl is too narrow and pinched.

Can you have Russell give you a new signature, using a really big Sharpie? One with a chisel tip, perhaps. Then run it through the photocopier a few times to give it some wear and tear before adding it to the script. Cezanne has a lot of character and additional R is just flat next to it.

Tighten up the word spacing and avoid that river.

I was afraid I wouldn't make it any better. I'll keep trying. Thanks, also, for the heads up on the river -- I've been staring at this for too long!

I would suggest something like the following. Remember, "Fine Catering" is really a tag line - secondary information. The focus should be on "Russell Morin." Your current size relationship just isn't working - the tag line is stealing the eye away from the signature.

I would definitely decrease the type size of "Fine Catering." I would also suggest doing some print tests to see just how small you can go. I also don't think the right alignment is working - just center it.

Best of luck.

Jim I agree with you direction, but not on with the stroke.

It's ala,

For 'Fine Catering' how about Engravers Gothic or Avenir – probably tracked out pretty wide and at a slightly smaller point size than you have now (like jimsbee's example)?

Ross

Strokes are usually superfluous, but I think jimsbee's spacing does it justice. I like that one.

I like the stroke. Adds a certain balance and 'weight' to it. I think a bit thinner would be more elegant.

ASVETIC:

Just because Jim Henson has a horizontal stroke that hardly copyrights it. It's a line...

At first glance, I preferred the tagline in Copperplate VS Topaz. The characters in Topaz are quite tall, and my first thought was that they were competing with the script above. But I see your concern about readability when it's scaled down. I walked acorss the room at looked at my screen. Topaz was stronger.

I would suggest taking the size of the tagline down a pt or two and increase the tracking; and adding a tiny bit more leading between the name and tag. The stroke design by Jimsbee also has a very classy look.

Just because Jim Henson has a horizontal stroke that hardly copyrights it. It’s a line...

I never said Jim Henson had a copyright on the use of horizontal strokes. I was just noting the similarity between Jim Hargreaves's mock-up and the existing Jim Henson signature workmark.

My two cents' worth. Have only scanned the comments, so forgive me if I've repeated anything.

The 'R' and the 'M' look like they come from different 'hands'. The dot on the 'i' is too long for my liking – looks messy. The join between the second 's' and the 'e' needs to be smoothened out (feels mechanical). Russell and Morin seem to have a different rhythm going on (the Russell seems less consistent, the Morin has a steady rythem). I know this is a hybrid between Cezanne and a real signature, but it needs a little more refinement to feel like it came from 'one' hand. On the other hand, I liked the first design and its colours. The rectangle to me says 'table' or 'fine linen'. And, though I like Topaz, in this case I prefer the Copperplate – has a little more character and because it is a wide font, acts as a nice support/line (so no line). But, I'd modify the 'G' and agree with Asvetic's suggestion re: space between name and the tag.

I wouldn't go for copperplate gothic and such (i mean sackers gothic, blair …) in the tagline. For me it is a little bit like to use Trajan as a default face for movies.
And … a very wide face looks strange, if it's spaced out that much.

I would give Versa Condensed SC a second try, hehe. Why – it looks elegant/distinctive, and you can space out this way condensed styles much better, and a "line-feeling" you can add with the use of SC.

Yes i agree, the tagline should smaller in size. For a useful logo system, you should design different versions of the logo for different sizes, etc. If the client pays for it …
Just my 2 cents.

No real help for you but i decided to play around...

(the last one is the delceration font in honour of the 4th!!)

Those three look awful. Sorry – totally unsuitable.

Ross

Well, he did say "No real help for you"

:)

Rich Shadrin

This was done hastily, on crappy paper.

The major problem I saw was the R, too low and no relation to the M. This aligns it with the M and gives it a similar entry stroke.

The line is another possible solution to that bugaboo.

Jim's Sans monoline is the perfect foil for the signature as it is the opposite of the sig, great contrast.

Michael

While the R might be a bit too strong I believe the effort holds together reasonably well. We tend to overwork - logos especially - when it really is not overtly called for. Call it graphic narcissism. That said, a few tweaks and IMHO I think you are there. (I am basing my comments on the original).

Consider tinting the signature just a bit - it comes off too aggressively. I am not in favor of darkening the FINE DINING much. It is more elegant with no more than perhaps a 10 -15% increase. In addition, you might either drop it a bit to let the eye air it out or, as another designer suggested run a rule and drop it centered. As for the rule it should be a hairline or just a bit heavier adding to the classy effect you seek.

Rich Shadrin

All these outside attempts at "help" only confirm for me that your first draft can't be improved upon very much. Darken the tag line, tweak the leg (only) of the R to vary the width a little, and I think you're done. It's really quite elegant!

I think typerror's attempt looks like a cross between Russell Stover and the constitution.

I think that the original design would work exceptionally if you set the tagline in Gotham.

Yes, James, Gotham Medium would be a lovely choice!

It needs some work on the kerning, but I agree it's a good choice.

Tagline color is #C0C19A

That's solid, Eileen, although I think it would benefit from "Fine Catering" being centered and maybe nudged down a bit.

Wake up people - my previous solution does exactly what you all just said - the tag line is set in Gotham Medium, centered, and nudged down a bit. You're going in circles.

Unless anyone has any substantially new suggestions, I say we leave it to Showandtell at this point.

yea, I think people are going in circles on this one. His logo was fine for what he was trying to build a logo for. Catering. It works in my opinion. The only suggestion I would say is make the tag a bit darker and a tad smaller to balance it out after making it darker. Just take small steps because you don't need many.

I don't agree that it needs to be centered, jimsbee, and adding a line is totally unnecessary and takes away some elegance. Honestly, I buzzed right past your early post for these reasons, not even noticing the Gotham. Sorry!

My guess is the OP is sorry they ever asked for help at this point!

To many cooks, spoil the broth.

Thank you all so much, I really appreciate everyone's opinion. I got a great critique here. I look forward to refining the logo and presenting the final to the client.