The top logo is awkward with the W and E.

Try working in another font for WEB maybe?

The frst thing I thought of was a Golf ball getting stuck in a spiders web when I read the aims of the business.

But I know you want to avoid this. Yet it could herald an interesting identity.

take care!
k

Sorry, but I would suggest starting over. I like nothing about it.
I have seen some interesting Golf related logos over the years and the most memorable was a golfball shaped like an egg (oval). I do not recall what it was for. Perhaps it was something about a nest, or what came first the....or ...
Something clever in that direction would be worth trying.
Btw. I am guessing the L you have is supposed to look like a club with the tilt it has? A bit of a stretch for most folks I would guess.
You could try simple type with a club replacing the L. not a tilted L., or how about no O just the dimples from a golfball.

Geoff, golf is a very upscale, exclusive and expensive sport. None of your ideas reflect this. Look at creating something that looks valuable.

I think it would be better to go back to the drawing board...

It's a interesting idea to suggest the golf club with the "L" letter and the ball with the "r" mark but that registred mark shouldn't be in the center. Try to make something funny. The "O" letter can be replaced with a golf ball for example. Also, I would not use different angles for the letters...

Kobe.

To me it looks like the L and the F are making a hole and the ball (registred mark) is at the bottom of it. It's clever, but not working here. I agree with Florian that the registred mark shouldn't be the center of the logo.

Geoff:

This is the first time in a while that I think Avant Garde is an appropriate choice for logotype. As you indicated in your original post, this is a work-in-progress, and as the rest of the posts indicate, you still have a lot of work to do.

I like Avant Garde because it is a clean typeface which is appropriate for the golfing community. I also like the implications of balls (we all know what I mean here) created by the circular letterforms. I would suggest exploring more subtle approaches to manipulating the type than what you have done, thus far.

The "W" with the "R-ball" implies a bouncing ball, which I don't think is the most beautiful shot to highlight. If I was showcasing a shot I think it would either be a long drive, or a perfect putt. The drive would require an arc and the putt would require a hole. I don't know if either of these would work into this logo, but you might sketch out a few ideas.

The "L-club" looks much more like a hockey stick to me. That starts alluding to Happy Gilmore, which albeit is a classic in my eyes, but I don't know how the more serious golfing community views that one.

Probably the most simple solution is to put some dimples in the "O" and call it good, but my guess is that the "O" in golf has been used as a golf ball hundreds of times over (but I can't support that with any research at this time). As I mentioned above, I like the concept of implied balls and subtle letterform manipulation.

Good luck! I'm anxious to see what you come up with.

Aloha!
Scott

What about using mixed-case AvG with a small, clean logo of a web, perhaps enclosing a G or a ball? Or maybe just text that says "Golfweb." with an inclusive period.

I also don't care for the (R) as a focus, IMO it's something that has to be present but really shouldn't be seen.

G'day, thanks for your comments. I do agree with most of you. The more I look at it, the more I dont like it.

Ive decided to go back to the drawing board with most of your comments in mind. However I am going to see what I can do with Avant Garde while experimenting with other ideas/typefaces.

I am stil a student, this is a university brief but the client is real. It is a great learning experience for me to get good thorough critque on here. Thanks.

I will post again later today, or tomorrow.

Sorry, I posted twice by accident.

Cheers.

G'day again,

I've come up with a few ideas, the deadline is quickly nearing, I wish I had more time on this!

Again my again is not to do a typical solution ie, golfball as the O in golf. I want to find an unique, original solution to this problem.

Hmm, although Golf is considered an upscale sport, alot of people dont consider it upscale. I agree, my first idea was too "Street". What I am trying here is to design something modern and upscale but friendly.

I know I am posting ideas that are radically different to one other. The one I like at the moment is the circular/geometric "golfweb" logotype (3rd on the top right). I feel the geometric circluar shape reminds me of golfballs. What do you think?

Keywords for this project for me are golf, web design and cocnnection/interation. As Golfweb is essentially a web design company for golf clubs.

Thank you for the honest critque.

Cheers.

Sorry about the spelling/grammar mistakes! It is early in the morning..

Again my again - Again my aim
Cocnnection - Connection
Interation - Interaction

Geoff, I like the last design (in green), the enclosed ball/tee is nice. I'd add a 'tail' to the body of the G, though, for clarity.

What about that logo with the mixed-case "Golfweb" under the halftone-dots logo?

Chase, Yes I agree I like the last design with the enclosed ball/tee.

Sorry, I am new to typographic design, what do you mean exactly by adding a tail. I thought the G already has a tail?

Yes I do like the logo with the halftone dots. But I think the last design is the best? Here is a variation of the last logo that I am not sure of.



Thank you for your comments, excuse my lack of typographic knowledge.

I like the Eurostile with the four dots for an "o", but also the "g"s with the triangle as a tee.

Tail on the "g": Chase probably either means the join between the head and the tail of a conventional binocular "g", or maybe the protrusion of the tail to the left of the head like in Rudolf Koch's Kabel.
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/kabel/book/win-t1/113786/character/0067/CP2/1/

hhp

Actually, I was referring to the lachrymal terminal found at the upper right of many serif lc Gs, but in this case a small bulge or tangential extension would suffice.

Just something to clearly state that the glyph represents a stylized G, since there may not always be accompanying context. Wouldn't want people to see an 8 or a big toe.

Oops.

What about these:


I didn't touch the text, but tossed a small 'lump' on the g as an idea of what I meant.

Chase, now you're just showing off (it takes one to know one :-). Geoff, translation: lachrymal = teardrop-shaped. Pretty rare term. Although useful. But even though I agree with Chase that an ear (what the structure in question is normally called) would help make it more of a "g", of course it doesn't have to be lachrymal, and (as Chase says) it probably shouldn't be. And virtually all binocular "g"s in any font (not just serif) have an ear. The classical exception is Centaur's Italic (dubbed "Arrighi").

--

Chase, I like that teddy-bear "g".

hhp

Chase, I am not sure about these, the large G does not seem to complement the logotype. I think its too busy. But I realise youre only trying to give me ideas! Thanks.

I've mucked around with this idea and came up with this. I tried some positive/negative graphics, the negative space is a golfball on a tee.. I think this could work well.

Geoff, to be honest, I didn't really care for the capital G I did either. This last iteration is nice and simple, but I feel that with a simple marque like that you need stronger type. I concur with your use of a sans face, but if you're straddling the upscale/classy set as well as the contemporary and tech-savvy, you may need something with a bit more presence.

I think something simple like Univers Extra Condensed might work, IMO a face with non-circular bowls would complement a circular marque nicely.

Hrant: Sorry, sometimes I don't know my tail from my ear I like the teddy-bear too� the uppercase one looks too much like the Gannett marque to me.

Chase, I dont have Univers Extra Condensed unfortunately, is there anything similar you would suggest?

The closest thing I have is Frutiger, I think, so I am playing around with that. I am not sure, I quite like the logotype.

However, keep in mind, I will not be using the type and marque together as a logo but as elements that complement each other.

If you don't mind playing with a TrueType font, Steelfish is a free Univers Ultra Condensed clone. At the very least you can try it out to see if it's something you like.

Keep playing with it, you're definitely making good progress with the design.

G'day,



Here is what Ive come up with so far... I like the idea of using the ball marque as the "o" in the "golfweb" logotype. This way I dont necessarily have to include the marque every time the logotype is displayed. This is crucial for the designs I have in mind for the business card, letterhead and envelope.

Personally, I like number 4 with the avant garde typeface I think I prefer a circluar typeface as it complements the marque. I still like number 1 (despite not using the marque as "o" in "golfweb" it will be way too busy!)

Any comments or critques would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

wow what an improvement from earlier posts. icon is superb.


May I suggest Digna as type choice.
There is no perfect weight in Digna so you may have create a weight between this (reg) and the bold.

Ole, Digna sure does look nice. Unforunately, I don't have it, I'm a sutdent desiging for a real client through the University.

So is there by any chance any clones of Digna that I can use? (I noticed that Chase was able to recommend a clone of Univers Extra Condensed) This way I can produce a mockup.

Cheers.

Geoff:

You've taken a good direction on this design. The icon is strong. A few suggestions�

1 Do not use the icon and logotype together (you may have alluded to this already). If you do, keep the logotype monochromatic, rather than changing the color on the "o"�only change the color in the logotype when the elements are used separately.

2 Either use a darker/richer green for the icon or replace the black with a lighter color (dark gray or dark neutral color).

3 Potential logotype alternatives to your selected Avant Garde (which I think works just fine)�Akzidenz Grotesk or Berthold Imago.

Great work. Aloha!
Scott

Geoff, I'll cast my vote for #4. Looks like you got to keep AvG after all

I'll also second Scott's suggestions. About the spot colour, I'm not sure if this is just a ballpark shade, but definitely make sure your spot looks good on uncoated media� some light greens can look washed out. Assuming you're evoking the lush blanket of grass on a golf course, you may want something a few shades darker.

My final comment has to do with the name. I bet its already registered as a website name. Its too obivious a name for someone not to have scooped up.

golfweb.com, net, info, org, and biz are taken, but golfweb.cc is still open.

Wow, impressive group work here. A lot of progress from the start! Since there's not much left to do here, I only have a quick question:

Geoff, is the type used in numbers one and two above a font? I'm referring to the very circular bauhaus/tech one. If so, i'd love to know the name and where you got it.

Thanks, and great work!

Jeff Croft

Scott, you're right, I intended to do it that way, Ive already done some sketches for the stationary. I will not be using the logo and type together, that was the reason for me putting the logo in the "o" in "golfweb" so I could justify not using them together.

I agree with your comment about keeping the colours monochromatic, ta.

Daniel, I think the website for my client is www.golfweb.com.au. It is nothing at the moment, I have to design a website for them, that may be the reason.

Jeff, the type in numbers 1 and 2, I designed myself from scratch. I like it heh, maybe one day it'll be my first type project.

Finally, I would like to thank everyone here for all the useful comments and critque. It has been incredible. Alot of my great progress goes to your credit, Thanks.

I will post the final logo and subsequent works shortly.

Cheers.

I think this has definitely gone a good direction, but I would like to point out that at smaller sizes, the notch in the "o" begins to resemble some sort of stencil, and my eye automatically begins looking for the same pattern in other letters.

I tend to think that at small sizes, you lose the visual effect, and are left with "golfweb" with a green "o".

Daniel, I agree� it's pretty difficult to design a logotype that looks recognizable at small sizes. Perhaps for business cards or other small-scale media, a larger version of the marque itself might be used.

Golf balls are small and precious. The logo shown in #4 depicts the ball as being large, due to the large negative counterspace. As a suggestion, try making the green "O" extra bold. The tee would then come down at a sharper angle and therefore look more like a tee. The ball would also appear smaller, like a real golf ball.

G'day.

It has been awhile. I am up to my ears in design briefs at the moment. During the weekend I managed to find some time to do a few layout sketches. This is a first crack at a sketch I liked. Well, I like to do things simple, but in an original manner. I dont want to copy an over-used sucessful layout or anything. So one of my aims here is to create an unique and creative layout with functionality and (this is going to be difficult!) legibility.



The letter body text is 10point on I believe 13point Avant Garde Book. The rest of the type is 9pt (I think it is readable, everything I get in the post is just under 9pt) Avant Garde again in varying weights (Bold, Medium and Book). I wanted to enclose the address and contact details into goftball shape, I think this could work.

Honest crituque would be fantanstic. Thank you.

1 The layout of the letterhead limits the space for content copy significantly. You might want to confirm with the client that this is OK. Right not it appears that copy would have to be contained within an area about 3 in from both the top and bottom, which only leaves 5 in for content.

2 I'm not seeing the golfball in the contact info. Maybe show an edge of the ball. Maybe add some golf ball dimples so that the letters are simply a continuation of the dimples�or just do something else.

Aloha!
Scott

Scott, I will be bringing it up at the WIP. From our last meeting, it was my impression that they will not need lots of word space. At the moment it is roughly 65 characters per line for a maximum of probably about 25 lines (that is about 1500 characters). But if need so, I will move the balls closer to the edge or re-design it.

The ball, I agree, the more I look at it, the harder i recognise it as a goftball heh. I am working on solutions to this, a faded colour marque behind it may solve it.

Thanks again Scott.

Ok, I quickly did a few changes in an attempt to make the contact details golfball more clear.

Cheers.

the contact-info-as-a-golfball seems very forced. I don't think you need it, and I think it detracts from the main mark.

Geoff:

That's definitely not the answer. You've got a strong mark and I agree with Darrel, that this new element is detracting from it.

A couple of random thoughts if you do want to try to make it work:

1 Your idea might work OK on the bizcard if you completed the silhouette of the tee to bleed off of the bottom of the card. This gives it some purpose (clarifying the tee of the mark) vs. just repeating the existing mark in a weaker fashion. If you did this, you might also try typing golfweb really small and repeating it across the bottom edge of the card so that it is like grass. Also, centering it isn't very interesting.

2 Maybe you can type golfweb really small and repeat it so that it floods the card (grass), except for a round circle that represents a golf ball. You can even make the type get a little larger from top to bottom representing perspective.

...just brainstorming thoughts.

Aloha!

Avant Garde is not readable.
If you must use a balls-and-sticks font for the text, try a Futura with a small x-height.

hhp

Hmmm, Good points there. I'll have to do more roughs. I seem to be going back and forth with this project. I need some good ideas. So I'll work on some ideas.

Cheers.

Geoff, I agree with scott and darrel on your latest version.

Adding the repeated graphic dilutes the punch of the first. Not only that, but it changes my perception, and now they seem to be dialogue bubbles from a comic strip.

By the way, I am very impressed with your direction and development. Nice work.

Ok, ok. I am nearing completion, deadline is next monday! but the client was very happy with what he saw so far. I would like to thank everybody for all the useful comments.

Here is a image of the near complete identity package I am doing for them. (I still have to do a brochure/website and polo shirts)



What do you think? Cheers.

I like it!

To be super nitpicky:

- does your client have green toner in their printers?

- I'm a fan of one-sided business cards for usability's sake. I'd suggest moving the logotype 'golfweb' to the info side of the card (leave the icon on the back). And then do *not* use the same typeface for the person's name. Even with the two-side approach, I think using the type for the name dilutes the ID system too much.

- while not as critical as the b-card, I might swap sides on the envolope.

The golfball looks great. Overall, this is reallly nice. Great job.

Darrel, I'm not sure what you mean by the "green toner", but my client is getting this package printed in pantone 365 (if i remember correctly).

Hmm, I think that is a good suggestion about the business card.

I think it will be difficult to pick a different typeface that would go nicely with avant garde? I am really really new to typography. Any ideas?

It is early in the morning. Tired, the only thing I can think of at the moment is a nice monoweight old style or a stab serif, so it would contrast the sans serif so they go together with more harmony then a transitional/modern.

Cheers.

Great job Geoff!

I think it works, as is. I like the replication of both sides of the bizcard. I actually think that it reinforces the ID. Is Golfweb going to print golfballs?

Aloha!
Scott

> Darrel, I'm not sure what you mean by the "green toner",

Just noticed that the body text was all set in green in your mockup. Odds are the body text will be printed in black.

> I think it will be difficult to pick a different typeface that would go nicely with avant garde? I am really really new to typography. Any ideas?

I'm far from a type expert, so I'll defer to others on a specific typeface, but I'd leave avant garde just for the logotype. It doesn't work great as a text face.

I agree that a contrast with Avant Garde may be the best way to go.

I'm liking double-sided business card, but as mentioned, I definitely would eliminate the competition between the name and the logo.

For the name, at the very least you might try just using a lighter weight of Avant Garde.

Geoff, that golf ball application is sweet.

(Darrel, good call about the green body copy.)