It is a sweet face for sure.
"...though it is a bit pricey..."
How do you view that in relation to this:
" a nice, sturdy workhorse, [] fully equipped with opentype features, {...] The PDF is particularly extensive. "
More, precisely, I'm wondering how much a customer might value a product like this over another "nice, sturdy workhorse" with only the usual glyphs, no OT advantage outside of format conversion, and a single page pdf... i.e. no guide to the product's use in composition?

Cheers!

I've been admiring Kingfisher for some time now. I think I first became aware of it about a year ago, and it coincided with a number of things that I'd been thinking about also. I'm envious that he got there first.

I have yet to see it used here in the States.

-- K.

I might agree that 225 pound Sterling is a pricy font for two weights, when Adobe Open type fonts with similar features will only cost $70US.

I'm not saying that Kingfisher isn't worth the price, only that one is justified in calling it expensive.

Two weights including italics for £225 makes it against $140. The real question should be what use are you putting it to, not that I have any experience with it although it is on my wish list.

Tim

I don't see what the issue is with pricing, it's like buying $99 denim opposed to $300 ones, they are both made out of the same material but you got to think about the targeted market, quality, features, creativity/uniqueness etc. In some cases $300 seems warranted, some cases it does not. If you have no clothes, you should buy some ubiquitous Adobe face, but you will see everyone wear the same jeans from Jay Jays on the street.

I really dig the gf combo there.

Kent wrote:

"I have yet to see it [Kingfisher] used here in the States."

Well, maybe once again Minnesota Historical Society Press is in the vanguard.* Minneapolis book design firm Percolator [http://www.percolator.us/] designed a book for us recently set in Kingfisher. “Beware of Cat” by Vincent Wyckoff is a wise and gentle memoir of carrying the mail on the same route for 15 years. It is published under our trade imprint, Borealis Books.

After working with Percolator on this project, I'd slightly modify the comment by typewiz to say that Kingfisher is a VERY "nice, sturdy workhorse." Obviously Percolator had no problems with the price. Nor would I. It is well worth it.

& I think I can see some of the things in Kingfisher that caught Kent's eye.

powers

* I think we may have been the first to use Chaparral for text setting in a book, and we were an early user of Kent's Whitman. Also of Clifford. I & the designers I hire are fully aware of the advantages offered to book composition by new types.

A COMPARISON

Minion
Reg, SemiBold, Bold, with Italics.
Black.
Display Reg and Italic
9 fonts: $199

Minion Expert Collection
Same styles.
13 fonts: $99

Minion Cyrillic
6 fonts: $149

Minion Greek
Not listed, but let's assume a similar price.
6 fonts: $149

Total--30 Type 1 fonts: $596

Minion Pro
Equivalent functionality
6 OpenType fonts: $210

(Black not available)

New fonts are priced similarly. Development costs have not come down -- the same number of characters still have to be designed and drawn.

Will -- MNHS is indeed a beacon of the vanguard. Once again, props to you (and Percolator) for championing new typefaces in books. I'll keep an eye out for Beware of Cat.

P.S. Ordinary Ways arrived just the other day. Many thanks. I'm planning to put up some snapshots when I revise my website (in process).

-- K.

> Two weights including italics for £225 makes it against $140.

No it doesn't. Adobe charges $35 each, so it is the $70 I said, not $140. (Now, that said, I know Adobe charges outrageous markups on software to Europe, so if the same happens to fonts, the difference might be much less than it seems.)

>No it doesn’t.
My maths may not be what they were but 35 multiplied by 4 is 140, maybe I am missing something. I am looking at the US store, (UK store is £25 each, which given the current rate of exchange is pretty steep).

Kingfisher Regular & Italic and Kingfisher Bold & Bold Italic £225

Minion Pro Regular $35, Minion Pro Italic $35, Minion Pro Bold $35, Minion Pro Bold Italic $35

Tim

Hi there:

Kingfisher Regular, Regular Italic & Bold, Bold Italic are bundled together- so 4 styles all together. Its priced at £225 pounds which is $452 here in the states. That's $113 per style. VERY EXPENSIVE is more like it!

There is no doubt that Kingfisher is nice (but not spectacular like Enigma is)- I particularly like the swash add-ons and the complete ligature set. But Kingfisher is priced in DTL territory which is not cool.

As mentioned earlier, fonts are not any different than other goods purchased by a consumer. Specifically, when the price is higher than other goods, no matter how high the quality is in comparison to those goods, price will always place a major role in the purchase decision. We've all shopped for cars right?

Personally I would seriously shop around to see if anyone else has something similar. An economical 'literary' face with delicate details.

Although nothing alike- I would have a have gander at Veronkia Burian's Karmina. It certainly economical- pretty details from Veronika's pen but page color would be blacker though.

What do plan on using Kingfisher for?

Mike Diaz :-)

I used Kingfisher for a book in 2005, and it worked very well. The book was Cultural Breaks: A Collection of Short Fictions, by Brian Aldiss, published by Tachyon Publications in San Francisco. (I only did the interior; the dust jacket was designed by someone else.) Since Aldiss is a literary science-fiction author and lives in Oxford, it seemed appropriate to use a typeface with English roots; but the real point wasn't where it was designed, but what effect it gave on the page while you were reading. I wasn't sure at first that Jeremy's italic would work here; it's nearly a slanted roman, with just a few cursive touches, and one of the stories had extensive passages in italic. But in fact the Kingfisher italic proved very readable, yet still different enough in structure to stand out in the occasional italicized word in running text.

The strong color made the pages easily read, even while the letterforms had a certain refined elegance; just what I wanted for this particular book. I appreciated details like the italic small caps -- and the regular small caps are strong enough to stand out in short acronyms in the middle of text. Having Kingfisher as an OpenType font made all the difference in quick, efficient book production; I could, for instance, automate all those small caps by using a character style in InDesign.

Very good book typeface. And the display version looked very nice at Really Big Size, too.

John Berry

>VERY EXPENSIVE is more like it!

That is partly due to exchange rates, Jeremy Tankard can hardly be blamed for a weak dollar. I don’t have any brief to push this nor is it pedantry, it concerns me that a search for Kingfisher could lead to this thread and a wrong impression received regarding the value (rather than cost), obviously not exclusive to this typeface or thread.

Tim

Nick's post notwithstanding, not all of us use programs that take advantage of OT-Pro features.

If anyone wants TT or OT (not -Pro), then the prices ARE expensive.

If the issue really IS "the same number of characters still have to be designed and drawn" then the REAL issue is bundling. If I only want/need/can afford R/I/RI/BI (with or without SC) then should I be forced to buy multiple weights and styles and features?

Apparently if you're Tankard or House Industries, the answer is yes.

I own Nick's wonderful Goodchild, and if I was forced to spend $452 for 4 or 5 or 32 variations of the font from super light to ultra-black with glyphs I'd never use, I couldn't have afforded it, but even if I could, it would be a poor value for the money considering what would go unused.

You're right Timd. I was thinking faces, not weights. £25 is the UK price ... that's about $50US, right? Surprisingly, this is not as much of a gouge as the software apps seem to be.

>then the prices ARE expensive

That is the price for Kingfisher, if you must have it then you must pay for it, it is neither cheap nor expensive, there is also the circular argument of whether it is worth it to the foundry to create/promote/sell/support other formats, if they choose not to and that doesn’t suit then you have an option.

Don, your exchange rate is about right, of course that is without knowing how local taxes affect the prices.

Tim

Steve, thanks for the big-up.

should I be forced to buy multiple weights and styles and features?

In future, I won't be producing $99 per family basic encoding packages in Type1/TrueType ($20 per font, $39 individually).

My OpenType equivalent will be a family of four for around $150 ($38 per font, $50 individually).
Such fonts would have all the typographic features, plus CE.
With Cyrillic and Greek, a bit more.
Having gone to the trouble of meeting the new standard for international corporations (language support) and picky book typographers (all the goodies), it's simply too much trouble to break one big OT font down into its constituents as separate products, and to manage all that in a retail environment (multiple distributors, etc.).

My back catalog of older format fonts continues to sell steadily, so I may yet produce new typefaces in Type 1/TT format.
I am also contemplating an incredibly-cheap product line or package, on the low-price-big volume principle.

But for now, it looks like new fonts will be "expensive and loaded" -- we'll see how that works out.

BTW, wouldn't you like small caps and old style figures?

If I only want/need/can afford R/I/RI/BI (with or without SC) then should I be forced to buy multiple weights and styles and features?

Um, who is forcing you to buy?

About prices/pricing. I must say that this is a very tricky decision, from a type designer's point of view. For instance, if the price is high, the sales volume may be lower, but may be the same amount of money made by pricing low & selling many. Or maybe it will sell the same amount licences regardless of the price. And if the price is lower, does that mean that more folks can afford & use the typeface?

I have a pet theory about high prices of type, that you might like to hear. If the price of a typeface is extremely higher than average, then those who buy it will consider it more of an investment than, say, a $20 special from MyFonts. Because they paid such a high price, they will be very unwilling to pirate the fonts about as well, as it devalues their own investment. And as we all know, a high price immediately makes us think that it is so much better than a cheaper alternative, like most luxury brands.

But, having said all this, the ultimate decision is by the seller. If they price high, then so be it. If you can't afford it now, then save up & buy it when you can, if you really want it. We are hardly debating the price of items essential to our day-to-day survival!

—K

But, having said all this, the ultimate decision is by the seller. If they price high, then so be it.

I obviously can't control how a type designer either prices or bundles fonts. But I do have a choice, IF I can afford to pay the price, or if I can't afford it, the choice has been made for me.

That said, if a vendor bundles a dozen fonts not in the same family and charges a bundle for it (pun intended), I have a whole lot less sympathy for the designer or vendor if someone pirates, copies, or rips off a particular font.

Originally Crackhouse was only part of a $299 package. (Now it's available separately as a single weight for $75.) Too little, too late: now you can download a rip-ff for free. Boo hoo.

Or, as Stephen Coles said, "[House Industries,] like Veer and others who sell only font packages, I believe their goal is to be the sort of retailer that makes $200 sales rather than $20 sales, even if it means losing a few $20 sales along the way. It’s worked out quite well for them."

I understand the type designers and the professional type users for whom no price is too much, especially if it produces exclusivity. What about all the rest of us who produce newsletters or fliers for non-profits. We don't need exclusivity, as if a font were a designer handbag, but just maybe we poorer types do know a good font when we see one and would like to use it.

Because too many of you are pricing yourselves out of my ability to pay, I have no problem using Storm's FREE Lido, or Fontin Sans by Jos Buivenga. Fontin Sans is available FREE in OpenType. Why would you not want to download this marvelous font family (R/I/B/BI/SC) with a true italic?

I DO appreciate the work that goes into the design and production and marketing of a font, but if the font business goes the way of the American automobile business, pardon me if I don't weep for you. I DO pay for fonts that I like and can afford.

I'm not old enough to remember the glories of metal type, but I am old enough to remember vendors producing print newsletters and catalogs, -- and even Image Club who sold fonts that I could afford when I couldn't afford fonts that I can afford to buy now.

We don’t need exclusivity, as if a font were a designer handbag, but just maybe we poorer types do know a good font when we see one and would like to use it.

This seems slightly strange to me. Just because you want it, it has to be within your price range?

Because too many of you are pricing yourselves out of my ability to pay, I have no problem using Storm’s FREE Lido, or Fontin Sans by Jos Buivenga. Fontin Sans is available FREE in OpenType. Why would you not want to download this marvelous font family (R/I/B/BI/SC) with a true italic?

Of course you have no problem using free typefaces! You pay nothing, you get something for free. Are you saying that if everyone priced within your ability to pay, you would have a problem using free typefaces? And if I may ask, what is your ideal price range for a fully featured text typeface like Kingfisher? Can you give us all an examples of typefaces priced too cheaply, just right, and too expensive?

but if the font business goes the way of the American automobile business, pardon me if I don’t weep for you.

What do you mean by this? I am not too familiar with the American automobile business, not quite sure how cars relate to type.

—K

I DO appreciate the work that goes into the design and production and marketing of a font, but if the font business goes the way of the American automobile business, pardon me if I don’t weep for you. I DO pay for fonts that I like and can afford.

Jesus h bloody christ. Pardon everyone else who doesn' tfucking well weep for you. Typical of hacks to moan and bleet like sheep when they can't afford a font!! Then they get all riteous when a font is priced high.

Seems like those who can do, those who can;t moan.

-----------------------
Chopper Reid says "Harden the **** up".

"I might agree that 225 pound Sterling is a pricy font for two weights, when Adobe Open type fonts with similar features will only cost $70US."

Comparing Adobe with Tankard does not make sense.
Adobe is not a classical type foundry. The font development team gets the funding that is not exclusively generated by type sales. Adobe typefaces enhance the value of Adobe software.
Following the same line, one might say that the system fonts of Microsoft are also for free. Are they? We pay their price when buying our next Windows.
So, comparing those isn't right.

Independent foundries like Tankard, Typotheque, etc are free to establish their prices according to their views, and are not obliged to follow the trends of the mainstream market, or patterns established by giants like Adobe or Microsoft.

That counts also for bakers -- here are bakers who make and sell bread that's way above the average price at Sainsbury's.

More, users have plenty of choice and are not obliged to buy Tankard fonts if they cannot afford it.

And, if it comes to prices, there are foundries that offer fonts at even higher rates, and they are still there, they are not out of the market.

Greetings,
Co.

I really don't see what is the problem here. I can't afford a Mercedes Vito, so I bought a second hand Citroën Berlingo. Do I moan and bitch about that? :^P ;^)

> And, if it comes to prices, there are foundries that offer fonts at even higher rates, and they are still there, they are not out of the market.

Exactly. I don't see anyone picketing the Ferrari headquarters and demand lower prices for their cars. :^D

Actually, come to think of it -- I applaud people like Jeremy for having the confidence in the quality of their product to set their prices accordingly.

Kingfisher will be introduced as the new editorial typeface in the next issue of Baseline (together with Akkurat, which is used in the current issue, as part of their re-design by HDR Visual Communication). If you find the magazine to be too expensive, you can always find it in a library.

> If you find the magazine to be too expensive, you can always find it in a library.

:^D

In the states I believe Baseline is an import and is not a cheap magazine. But if I see it, I read it, then put it back on the shelf!

HA!

Mikey :-)

For Kris:

For instance, if the price is high, the sales volume may be lower, but may be the same amount of money made by pricing low & selling many. Or maybe it will sell the same amount licences regardless of the price. And if the price is lower, does that mean that more folks can afford & use the typeface?

A fabulous example of high quality at low price is House Industries's Neutraface, Chalet, or Paperpack collections. Their products fly off the shelf! Sales will only exist if the fonts are good designs. Look at DSTtypes Estillo- it outsells everything else he makes. He priced it so that the buyer would not even think twice before swiping his or her Visa. Fonts that suck don't sell well cheap or high. Look at all the crap on myfonts. There are some "designers" that think they can make a living with that nonsense.

"If the price of a typeface is extremely higher than average, then those who buy it will consider it more of an investment..."

Everything I buy is an investment but if the typeface is expensive then I am even more concerned to see if the price tag matches its performance. But usually, The higher the price the more I start looking at alternatives with quality as one of the main criteria.

"A high price immediately makes us think that it is so much better than a cheaper alternative"

Not for me. I hold the $20 font to the same standard as the $35 and $60 one. I expect every type designer to do his or her upmost no matter what the price is. Humans are very fallible creatures. Every font has something that's not quite as it should be- design, kerning, features, etc. I expect niggle with Fleischmann when I buy it some day. Speaking of the $20 specials on myfonts- MVB has been putting out excellent opentype fonts on sale for a while now. There is an example where excellence can be had for less- so there are exception to the rule.

Mikey :-)

For Co>

The font development team gets the funding that is not exclusively generated by type sales.

Are you sure? Adobe sells plenty. There fonts are sold by every single distributor I can think of. Perhaps Phinney can comment on your assertion.

Mikey :-)

Okay my last installment... :-)

Quality and reasonable pricing are not mutually exclusive. Just look at the output of the new indies latetly. Every purchaser of type has that pricing "sweet-spot" of quality and price which we all seek to find, but in some cases there are no adequate substitutes or equivalents. For me over $100 a style is way too much. After that, I have to look for ways to justify it. If I can't, then I will keep looking and waiting. Not to say I haven't done so. I have spent $100 on a single Type1 font and will do so soon too. The design I purchased is supremely better (that's right- I said supremely) than all others that have attempted the revival so I'm happy to have spent that kind of money. I always place quality first when shopping for type. Then price.

But excellent book workhorses? These can be found all over the place for less money. Will these alternatives be as good as Kingfisher- maybe. Will these be better- maybe. Could Kingfisher be the best font on the planet?... perhaps not to me, but I'm glad that those who have ponyed up to buy it, enjoy it very much. Perhaps a reason for Typewiz to purchase it.

What I find so great about a free market is, if I think your prices are too high; there is (most of the time) some other type designer who will offer the same things for less money, or more things for the same money; and that person will get my business. Look at the beautiful Miller from Font Bureau and the "pragmatic" Chronicle from HF&J- not the same, but both for news- both very well done. I would not be surprised if Miller's sales have slide a bit because of the tremendous value put into the HF&J package. (personally I'm a Miller man myself but anyway...)

As buyers of type we need to always need to do our due diligence when it comes to making purchase decisions (as Typewiz is). I think we need to remember that Typewiz thinks the price is a little expensive (I agree with him). Maybe he'll buy it, maybe he won't. I'm sure the positive feedback (and his checkbook) will help him decide.

I like what Yves said about the cars. Although I would have bought something Japanese :-)

All my best to Typewiz and everybody else too,

Mike Diaz :-)

As a side note- Kris's Feijoa looks like another great choice for text! Its absolutely beautiful. If Typewiz is not sold on Kingfisher, Feijoa would make a fabulous selection. It certainly feels luxurious and does not look like "cheaper alternative" even though is seriously well priced! Feijoa reminds me of a warm letterpress Coranto. Its complement of ligatures are more fun too (and it's about time someone does f í combinations- eastern europeans need ligatures too :-)

Mikey,

Fonts that suck don’t sell well cheap or high. Look at all the crap on myfonts.

This is a given, considering that we are talking about Kingfisher & it's price.

A fabulous example of high quality at low price is House Industries’s Neutraface, Chalet, or Paperpack collections. Their products fly off the shelf! Sales will only exist if the fonts are good designs.

But this still doesn't address the price-high/sell few or price-low/sell many. I guess this will be a question that will remain unanswered!

Not for me. I hold the $20 font to the same standard as the $35 and $60 one. I expect every type designer to do his or her upmost no matter what the price is.

But, presumably, you'd only hold that $20 typeface to the same standard if it is from a 'good' foundry, and not the "crap on MyFonts"?

But usually, The higher the price the more I start looking at alternatives with quality as one of the main criteria.

Which brings me back to my unanswered question to Renaissance Man: what is the ideal price range for a fully featured text typeface like Kingfisher? Can you give us all examples of quality typefaces priced too cheaply, just right, and too expensive?

—K

> Are you sure? Adobe sells plenty. There fonts are sold by every single distributor I can think of. Perhaps Phinney can comment on your assertion.

Mikey,

the point is not who sells more.
It's simply different business.

Greetings, Co.

> In the states I believe Baseline is an import and is not a cheap magazine. But if I see it, I read it, then put it back on the shelf!

Ah, a literary pirate. Aaarrrgh.

I've been prowling around Typophile far longer than my "member for" date indicates. Boy, am I a slow learner.

SOME of the typophilles (and poseurs) here bristle at free fonts, justify high prices, demand quality in a font or website unless it's one of your own, then you piss and moan and howl about me and people like me who have a champagne taste and a beer budget, and who expects professional types to be professional.

Well, you professional types may think you can have it both ways, but the rest of us know better.

There's been a lot of trashing of MyFonts on this thread and others, and if you don't like it, don't buy there. There are some type designers, like Nick Shinn who sell their fonts there, and even though he's rather successful at selling proprietary fonts, he is still grateful for MyFonts.

I refrained from stooping to Muzzer's level (if you can't attack the facts, resort to ad hominem arguments) hoping that someone else here would. He's the Sipro Agnew for all the Richard Nixon la-de-da upper crust types (or the Dick Cheney for you dubya la-de-da upper crust types) here.

Those of you, who I otherwise consider class acts, in letting him get away with that kind of crap, demonstrate where you really stand.

Those who think comparing fonts to cars are now in my territory. Any effin' idiot can design a world class car for $250,000 on up, but the REAL credit goes to those who can combine the best of all possible attributes in a car that sells for the masses.

For those who want to sell the Louis Vuitton or Ferrari equivalent of fonts at stratospheric prices, be my guest. It you want to try to try to thrive on exclusivity ("if you have to ask, you can't afford it") go ahead. But As I said before, if there are rip offs, don't come boo-hooin' to me. If you want sympathy, look in the dictionary.

The link between quality and price is tenuous at best. For those who are dedicated to their craft, and want to make a living at it, I salute you, and am willing to buy your fonts. (Shinn, Stone, Porchez, Degroot, Buivenga, and others.) For those who are a legend in your own minds, well you have enough supporters that anything I can say matters little.

then you piss and moan and howl about me and people like me who have a champagne taste and a beer budget

But there are so many typographic options for a beer budget, it is almost overwhelming!

Those of you, who I otherwise consider class acts, in letting him get away with that kind of crap, demonstrate where you really stand.

I do not defend Muzzer's comments, but I'd rather stay on the topic.

The link between quality and price is tenuous at best. For those who are dedicated to their craft, and want to make a living at it, I salute you, and am willing to buy your fonts.

Does this mean that you wouldn't license Kingfisher? Surely you'd rate Jeremy Tankard as someone who is dedicated to his craft, willing to make a living, and deserving of your salute!

Those who think comparing fonts to cars are now in my territory. Any effin’ idiot can design a world class car for $250,000 on up, but the REAL credit goes to those who can combine the best of all possible attributes in a car that sells for the masses.

Thanks for clarifying! I think I now understand your earlier analogy. So is there an equivalent typeface to this car that that combines the best of all possible attributes and sells to the masses? The 6 new Vista typeface families? The myriad of typefaces that some with your computer? Helvetica? Times? How many cars do you need?

------------------------------------------------

As a fledgling type designer, I would like to say that pricing is never an easy thing, I doubt it is taken lightly by any retailers. For instance, after four years of work on Feijoa (yikes!), deciding that a price of $US 150 was almost heartbreaking. It would seem to be a monumental waste of time if it only sold once or twice. But if it did take off, then all those years of living hand-to-mouth would be worth it. I can understand the retailers who would just feel that pricing their work higher than 'average' is justified—all the customer sees is the final price, never the hours/days/years/decades that go into designing the typeface. I can also understand those who price lower than 'average' in order to (hopefully) increase sales.

I would like to be very clear. The only reason that I am involved in this thread is to try and determine what is considered a fair price for typefaces. I am neither championing free fonts nor expensive ones, folks will do what they feel is right. To this end, Steve & others, may I ask you again:

What is the ideal price range for a fully featured text typeface like Kingfisher? Can you please give us all examples of quality typefaces priced too cheaply, just right, and too expensive?

Thanks!

—K

I like what Yves said about the cars. Although I would have bought something Japanese :-)

The problem with Japanese cars is that they hardly break down and have a long lifespan. French cars on the other hand… And that‘s why they are really cheap to operate: plenty of affordable spare parts around!

___
Bert Vanderveen BNO

When I was a principal in a very small design firm (just me and my then wife), I would spend 1000 to 2000 euro's a year on typefaces. Some cheap, some expensive, but ALWAYS effective for the chosen purpose (at least, that’s what I hope).
Even now, when I am on hiatus, I have bought some families and single faces (Luxury from HI, Locator from Process Type, last week London Underground Pro from P22) because I felt I NEEDED them. You can check what I paid for that…

And with the dollar taking a dive, American type is becoming really cheap!

Kris: Seriously, I think that the range of 30 to 50 $ per face and 150 to 300 per family is fair. For extended features or larger families I willingly pay more (let’s say up to 750). And for really classy stuff I will sell some of my Apple-shares, if needed.

___
Bert Vanderveen BNO

Whoa, Steve , chill! There really is no need to get all worked up over this.

The point I was trying to make is that I believe in the designers deciding for themselves which price is right for their typefaces, and the users to decide for themselves if they're willing to pay that price. It's all about self-determination, you know.

> But As I said before, if there are rip offs, don’t come boo-hooin’ to me. If you want sympathy, look in the dictionary.

So if I interpret your words correctly, theft of intellectual property is warranted if a designer sets his prices too high for your standards? Now that is an intriguing ethical position. :^)

And please don't put words in other people's mouths as if you can read their minds. Really, I'm cool with freeware fonts (at least the rare quality ones) and have been using some of them from time to time. I'm cool with cheap fonts, as I have licensed many. I'm cool with expensive fonts, as I have licensed few. But I'm not angry at Tankard for setting his prices as he deems correct: it really is not my business. And I certainly wouldn't accuse him of being "a legend in [his] own mind". Your comments come across as really bitter and acerbic. I fear they tell more about you than about those you call the "la-de-da upper crust types".

Trying to equate fonts to cars is never going to work, for the reason, among others, that fonts do not have built-in obsolesence, in fact, given the environment they are designed for, they soldier on forever (or can be replaced from a backup).
I don’t think there is a font which is so stellar that it cannot be replaced by an alternative within a budget, the lower the budget, the less alternatives.
Professional types have the advantage in that they can ask for budgets which include a provision for typefaces, on the other hand they do have to produce.

Tim

So if I interpret your words correctly, theft of intellectual property is warranted if a designer sets his prices too high for your standards?

Yves: Clarification: theft of intellectual property is never warranted or justified. Over-priced merchandise just invites it.

Kris: Fontin Sans is so good I'd buy it if it were not free. But I AM glad it was free. Recent purchases that fall into the "just right" category include Parisene Plus, TheSans Office, Cycles and Arepo (purchased at half-price from MyFonts), Goodchild (purchased at Fonts.com for $99 in TT), and Mrs. Eves. One price-related issue is not just how much a font costs, but bundling: forcing me to buy fonts I don't want, or weights I don't need in order to get the font or weights I want. Nueue Helvetica is one example; all House fonts are another. Because I think they are fairly priced and bundled, I'm considering Clearview Text and Berling Nova. And I really like Canada Type.