Typophile

Help with kerning and spacing (and opinion on the letters themselves)

rubenDmarkes

Hey typophiles and typophilletes!

I really need a quick help with this... I’m doing a poster and I drew these calligraphic letters to use in it and I was just wondering what you all might think of them, especially regarding kerning and word spacing.

By the way, for our portuguese members (I’m sorry for being “rude” and writing this in portuguese): vai estar uma exposição destes cartazes – cartazes sobre o 25 de Abril feitos pelos alunos das turmas de design gráfico e multimédia do 4º ano da ESAD de Caldas da Rainha – na galeria Zé dos Bois no Bairro Alto, em Lisboa; começa dia 24 à noite e ficará naquele espaço durante alguns meses, julgo. Não prometo que adorem nem que vejam grandes obras de design, mas é sempre bom de ver. :P

Kern (slightly closer) ud and sa, for wordspacing I think the tudo são space is a touch narrow.

Tim

Thanks for your help, Tim! Unfortunately, I had to print the posters this morning, so I couldn’t change anything... it was a bit short notice. You’re probably right about the kerning and wordspacing, though... I’d been staring at it for so long that I didn’t even know what the words meant, let along kern it all properly! Oh well, not that big of a problem. :)

What do you think about the letters? Could I aspire to be, one day, a reasonable type designer? I think I could do better – especially with that S (sounds funny) and that D –, but I really didn’t have the time or the patience...

ruD

They were only minor amends, so no not a big problem. I am not a type designer, although I do do lettering and calligraphy, but the a, e and n are definitely on the way.

Tim

Oh, if you’re not a type designer then I don’t care what you think. :P Just kidding, thank you for your time. :)

In this case I’d say you should start by observing how type is not calligraphy.

hhp

It’s nice calligraphy, although I’ve always thought one of calligraphy’s niceties is that it’s not as mechanical as typography. You can’t yet (that I know of) control thinks like ink flow and coverage in existing font standards. Imagine the interesting things we could see if you not only defined shapes and outlines for fonts but also opacities or stroke directions. But individual variation between letters, spacing, etc — often in spite of an attempted supression thereof, at least in Latinate calligraphy, Arabic and Asian of course being very different stories — that’s what gives calligraphy it’s “charm”. Type, like I said, is pretty mechnical, even though we can fake having it lose that mechanical property. At least, this is how I’ve always related the two.

Now my turn to be rude :) ... Que mai que eu não estou na península ibérica agora, embora eu vou vivir em Madrid a partir do octubre. Se tem mais exposições ansim, eu gostaria saber delas, não é um viagem largo pra mi. Ô, é desculpas por o meu português tão mau :)

«El futuro es una línea tan fina que apenas nos damos cuenta de pintarla nosotros mismos». (La Luz Oscura, por Javier Guerrero)

I like the ’meaty’ quality of your calligraphic type. You should compare your effort to other typographic versions of the Carolingian miniscule. Most of them are more sparkly, so there may be a place for this as a display face.

For type and consistency of spacing you have to look out for things like the terminal on the u being much longer than on the a, which presents problems for spacing.

The a is wider than it would be traditionally, and maybe too wide.

Well, you’re right, hrant, of course... but I love calligraphic type like Centaur and the likes, sometimes we can surely mix it up a bit and defy deffinitions. :P

And thanks for the pointers, William! That detail about the terminal being of different length in those letters is certainly (maybe obvious for some but still) quite helpful. :) I do agree on the lcA being too wide... and originally it was actually even wider! I had a similar problem with the original letters on the lcO – which was far too slim even in this version – and the lcU – too wide –, but I guess those were corrected, at least in the final version. Overall, this was a pretty much rough and sketchy (and lazy, I admit) first approach to the design of a calligraphic seriffed face, but it worked pretty nicely on the poster... I guess it’s got that “meaty” quality that makes it a nice display face. :)

By the way, here’s the version I ended up using... you almost can’t tell the difference, but the lcA is less wide and the lcO is wider. I also messed around with the kerning, but today, when we put the posters up on the wall, I realised it wasn’t that good...

Oh, and Guifa: I don’t get much information regarding this sort of thing, but I’ll let Typophile know when I do. :)

ruD

> sometimes we can surely mix it up a bit

Not sometimes, always; and not can, but have to. But it’s
not about what we do, it’s about what we do does to others. :-)

hhp

I think I understand what you’re trying to say, hrant. :)
And what do you think of my attempt to create seriffed letters?

ruD

I think it’s a bit of handsome, expressive display typography.
The “s” in particular is notable.

hhp

——

Today, learn about the Armenian Genocide.

Eu gosto muito!

I think the e and the ~ are my favourites in the pack. I always like it when the left half of the tilde is a little bit less lengthy than the right half — very old fashioned, but still my preferred style.

«El futuro es una línea tan fina que apenas nos damos cuenta de pintarla nosotros mismos». (La Luz Oscura, por Javier Guerrero)

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