> Symbol
> Icon

synonyms. A visual representation of a concept/word. Doesnt’ have to be literal.

> brand
sometimes refers to the physical identity styles. Often refers to the ’vibe’ the company has overall.

> Identity
> logo
> Trademark
> brandmark

Synonyms. All tyipcally refer to some icon used as a logo as part of the brand.

> Monogram

Your initials on a towel.

The problem with these terms is that to some people they have interchangeable meanings today. In the past, there were more meanings and differentiation. The term “Logo” is the biggest contender. Logo is short for logotype. Logo means “word” in Greek. To some degree, people use the term “wordmark” like the term logotype used to be used. It meant the name of the company or organization depicted typographically, like Ford. Later, the initials or acronym was also considered a logotype, like IBM. Monogram, like the TDC, is a style of configuration where initials may be superimposed on each-other or placed within a shape. This was a common practice years ago for stationary and even clothing (monogrammed shirts). A symbol was initially a graphic which represented some entity but letterforms were not required. The Nike swoosh is a symbol. A trademark was either a symbol or logotype which was legally endowed with the identification of a company or corporation. Trademarking involved government registry and search for availability. Brand used to mean a product brand like “Rice Crispies” but later came to mean the parent company which made the product as in the “Kellogg’s Brand”. The brandmark might be either the “Snap-Cracle-Pop” characters or the script “Kellogg’s” name.
Identity was all the things involved with identifying a company including symbol or logo, colors layout of print matter, etc.

Today though, everything is called “Branding” even if no product is involved. Corporate identity is even called branding. Everything used to identify a company is acalled a logo even if no letterforms are involved. The whole Branding buzz seems-to have been kindled from the marketing angle and has come to mean positioning a given organization to appeal to a certain set of customers—trying to make them look like a duck.

I am sorry for rambling so much (between phone calls here). I hope this helps clarify the very muddy waters that we now have in this business.

ChrisL

Identity refers to more than a logo. Identity encompasses everything from a color scheme to advertising to what the flight attendants wear on an airplane.

Icon: Madonna (both of them)

I think symbol is a broader term than icon but I could be wrong here. I think of icons are - in general - more pictorial.

Wikipedia could be of some use here.

wow chris very nicely put.

Thanks Jessie.

ChrisL

Symbol and Icon: synonyms. A visual representation of a concept/word. Doesnt’ have to be literal.
Sorry I don’t think this is accurate. There’s a difference between symbol and icon, at least according to semiologists. Satya, I don’t know how accurate you need to be but I’d be careful about this. Maybe you can check what C.S. Peirce has to say about this.

Symbol and Icon are very different in the context of visual and cultural language, but unfortunately in the “new” venacular they have become synonymous as has typeface and font.

We can thank both engineers and marketers for some of this muck-up of language.

Icon has been the name of choice for Human Interface Design items such as computers and cell phones. This seems to now supersede the meaning of “Likeness” which it used to have and “Standing for” something untouchable, often used in religious likenesses of saints and diety.

ChrisL

True, Chris —

so what is this:

If I recall correctly, Peirce classifies signs according to these categories

Symbol. A symbol is a sign related to the actual object by an artificial or very abstract convention. Words (printed or spoken) and abstract symbols such as the cross fall under this category. They have not actual relation to the thing.

Indices. These are signs that refer to the actual object by indicating it’s existance such as smoke to the fire or a pictogram.

Icon. Is a sign used in substitution of the actual thing by resembling it’s qualities such as speed, color, texture, character, etc... most of brands fall under this category.

Trademark and brandmark I suspect are more related to the US commercial and trading laws.

Monogram is a logotype formed by the initials of a name.

Logotype is type whose semantic quality exceeds that of a simple type labelling. Originally logotypes were words casted in a single slug for type composition.

Brand is the semantic construction of a corporation’s identity by means of it’s communication and way of being.

Idetity is the perception built in the mind of a public of a corporation’s being.

Mark is the core element of a Brand. It’s visual device composed of an icon or a logotype or both, a color scheme and a graphic system.

Héctor

Since Index hasn’t been defined yet. It has several meanings, some of which are linked to typography and information design, the most obvious is probably an alphabetical list (of subjects in a book/article), it can also mean to create and use symbols which act with a key for a map or illustration, or the printer’s fist (the hand with the index finger pointing). there are also meanings linked to mathematics, a pointer in a measuring instrument or computing. Hopefully this hasn’t confused things even more.
Tim

I think in this case, the term index or more indice, corresponds to indicator of. As Héctor says, smoke indicates fire. This was one of the principle elements I taught in the semiotics course I taught at OSU 30 years ago. You might look at some linguistics texts as well for more background. [Roland Barthes]

ChrisL

“(Both are steeped in religious hierarchal terms!)”

Happy New Year Norbert! Now we are really pushing church and state :-)

ChrisL

Thank you very much to you all for giving me a little out of your precious time and helping me out. Now am really getting a bit clear on these terms...Though I know its not gonna end here..therez lot more to come yet.

thanks a lot everyone

satya

Now am really getting a bit clear on these terms
I wonder how. I’d be even more confused! ; )

Just for the sake of order: keep index, symbol and icon on the same group. These are types of signs and you can easily find the difference between them in any semiotic/semiology book or website. Remember symbol is arbitrary. A sign can be all three. Obviously this is a rough “guide” but semiology is an interesting and useful topic for graphic design students and it’s worth researching this a bit.

therez lot more to come yet
Keep them coming!

Satya,

This site has some good links:

http://carbon.cudenver.edu/~mryder/itc_data/semiotics.html

ChrisL

What does seismology have to do with this?

Nothing really. It’s either my blurry monitor or low-grade dyslexia acting up.

Is this thread drift?

There is nothing earthshaking about Semiotics Cuttlefish, you may just need to brace yourself for the shock of Roland Barthes :-)

ChrisL

It is a manifestation of a “higher being” of the physical realm into the “lower form” of the digital realm. Being an avatar also places it in the broader group of icons, and being an icon, in the still broader group of symbols.

Choz Cunningham
!Exclamachine Type Foundry
The Snark

“higher being”
LOL!

At 5’8”, I am hardly a higher being, more like an old, bald, kermudgeon :-)

ChrisL

Hello again,

Am also looking for websites/links where i can find the history & interesting stories behind the famous logos/symbols. Plz drop in if you have any.
Like this one, >> + <<

thanks a lot.

satya

I had to look this up:
Curmudgeon: a crusty irascible cantankerous old person full of stubborn ideas.
Well, that’s not you Chris. Sounds more like er... me!

This definition might be so, but I’ve always associate a digital “avatar” with a virtual world three-dimensional interactive representation of one who enters an online community such as this —
Avatar.

Lore,
At least you know how to spell it properly—I’ll bet I am old enough to be your father so you can’t fit the definition :-)

ChrisL

Oh yeah... why (not) a duck!

Sorry Chris, I’m having too much fun with your icon/avatar.
Satya is still looking for site suggestions from us.

You are right Norbert, Satya needs the help.

Most major corporations probably have info on the history of their own logo/trademark on their web site. There are also books on corporate identity which often give a historic reference.
There was a book called “Signet Signal Symbol” back in the 60s which did a great job of describing the terms you mentioned above. It may still be available in some libraries.

ChrisL

A thread drift? On Typophile!? C’est Impossible!!

“C’est Impossible!!”

Wee :-)

ChrisL

I knew using Chris’s picture would lead to trouble, but someone else started it. Since it looks like the animal handler at Bembo’s Zoo, though, its a most interesting example. I would call it a strong avatar.

My proposed definition is based on the classical definition, adding in my suspicions of how it came to be defined like we use today, inspired by cyberpunk literature.

I think the original vision was that by now we were supposed to have throbbing surreal 3D virtual-raves for an internet, that we waltzed about like supermen, while data and applications labored to serve our virtual identities. However, in reality, we never got hover cars by 2000, we don’t all “see” the matrix code as redheads (without decoding software), and we can’t even get one standard for instant messaging.

But if the internet is indeed cyberspace, than the icons that represent “actual” people, would be avatars. When I describe them as such people always have distinguished them from other icons in a UI immediately with no pre-discussed scenario.

In massively-multiplayer online RPG’s, the worlds are generally populated with hordes of 3D characters, each individually directed, but these similar things are rarely called avatars. Funny, since most of the activity bypasses the role-playing factor, and the characters are as distinct from their owners as the doggy in Monopoly. I think this is because the character is intended to be “not you” in this case, so it cannot be your avatar.

I think there are various strengths of avatars, as well. Chris’s shows what he looks like and what he is ’about’ and some of his mirth, so it is strong. To glance up, Tiffany’s is fair, because it hints at what she does (it’s type-designey), and suggests some official relation to Typophile.com. Mine is okay. It shows a part of a logo, and some punctuation. But hey, how easy is it upload your essence into a 40x40 box?

Choz Cunningham
!Exclamachine Type Foundry
The Snark