For the first time I really was working on making a high quality font, both in my
outlines and in the details. What follows is a close up of a trap on the w.

And finally, a pdf. As I note in the ever so eloquent copy, the upper case was carefully
spaced, but not kerned, and the lowercase was autospaced. Two problems I saw were
that the lower case a looks wide, as does the actual space.

A possible solution to the heavy caps (if in fact you agree that they are a bit heavy)
would be to scale them down a bit. As it is, I think the assenders / cap height might
not suffer from being lowered. What do you think?

Thanks all.
Randy

I didn't spend too much time on the sample making it look pretty. Sorry :-)

sample sample.pdf (18.1 k)

You've given a nice, Gothic look to many of the letters. I like it.

Paul

Thank guys.

The big question I'm facing before moving on is: are the caps too dark for the lower case? Right now the caps are 112% heavier than the lower case. Is there a rule of thumb on this?

I desperately need a nice laser printer if i'm going to get serious about this. I've attached another pdf that shows what I'm talking about. Anyone want to take a look at a print? :-)

I've made a few minor adjustments since the last look. So feel free to get nit picky.

Thanks,
Randy

cap test text_setting.pdf (20.3 k)

I whole-heartedly agree with earlier posts that this effort warrants further work... congratulations! Based upon my first and immediate reaction, I prefer the second of the three lower case "a's". And one other observation (that may be due to my failure to renew a prescription more than keen typographic analysis) is that the vertical strokes of some upper case characters seem to bow out more than the normal optical illusion. They bring to mind jfp's brilliant suggestion for the "y" diagonal strokes in the recently posted yesyes logo. Again, congratulations.

Nice contribution, with Eurostyle in its roots. I wonder about R, J style and P (this one quite flat and too high bowl). The Q is interesting, perhaps a bit too straight at the bottom, when the g horizontal is more curvy.

The coma is too small, and not very funny.

Good job.

Again, thanks for the comments.

JFP, I'm posting new versions of the R and P. The P really needed help! I was less sure of
the R. I fixed the obvious problem where the leg joins the bowl. Were you also commenting
on the shape of the leg? If so, I've also included other shapes I tried. In the end, I still
like the one I chose. What does everyone think.

I didn't realize commas were comical. Are you suggesting more of a smile?

Onward to my first set of numerals.

Randy

This is getting nicer! I like the gentle squareness.

Your spacing is a hair too tight overall.

The caps are indeed too dark, but since your x-height is large they don't seem to need scaling down.

The comma is a bit too delicate. But I love your "rationalist" quotes.

g: The binocular one needs to open/lighten up.
Q: A bit much, I'm sad to say.
R: I like #3.

Trapping: are you using Flower Power?
http://www.themicrofoundry.com/ss_trapping1.html

hhp

Thanks again all for the suggestions.

The main thing I've changed in this PDF is the
weight of the caps. now they are 106% of the
lower case. I think it works out better, but haven't
had a chance to look at a print. What do you think?

Narrowed and lightened the lc a (went with the
version with the straight join)

Narrowed the lc n

Fixed the cap P

Fixed the cap R

Comma is more robust.

Flower Power: Nope, not using it. The method
I was using only works with precision on
symmetrical traps. That's where the flower is
really nice. I'll check it out, thanks.

The Q: I've always thought this is the one place
where you get to take a few liberties. In what
way is it a bit much? I felt the tail fit nicely into
the space left by the upper or lower case U.

Oh, JFP: I was wondering about the cap J. Is it
the decending below the baseline that is a
problem, or the narrowness, or both? I extended
it below the baseline to help with spacing.

Hope to have some numerals before the day
is out. Thanks.

Randy
Hope you enjoy this Dr. Seuss classic as
much as I do.

Fixed Caps fixed_caps.pdf (20.7 k)

Randy,

I agree with you on the Q, it has personality, but it also works!
Please keep it, besides, you can always have an alternate with
a more conservative option.

Good improvement on P and R.

Looking at your pdf

Nice improvements, Randy.
Quick comments after a quick glance on your pdf:
-"f" should be taller, slightly taller than "l"
for overshooting.
-"Q": I can

I'm liking the texture in your latest sample.
And I think the cap weight is just fine now.

> symmetrical traps

BTW, you can make asymmetrical traps using the Flower by revolving the new corner point along its circle, to the desired spot. Also, you can compensate for greater bleed in one dimension than the other by using [properly aspected] concentric ellipses instead of circles.

> The Q: I've always thought this is the one place where you get to take a few liberties.

You're right - on second thought it's probably just fine (and cute to boot) - as long as it doesn't clot on you.

Descending UC "J"s: I personally love them. To me the only reason not to have it descending is for display work, and only if the "Q" is also non-descending (which rarely looks good though). Some people say that a descending "J" doesn't really help spacing, since it rarely occurs except as the first letter of a word/name - but of course that's a highly Anglo view - type designers from LJUBLJANA (they do exist) probably have nightmares about non-descending "J"s... I really think they help in every way.

BTW, an idea for showing caps:
http://www.typophile.com/forums/messages/4101/1329.html

hhp

I've never drawn numerals before so I'd love feedback on them. These were done after a hefty study of the numerals of virtually every other in the genre. BTW, I never noticed that the Akzidenz 7 has a (serif?) or hook in the light, regular weight, that disappears in the bold? Wierd. Anyways, don't know about the 1.

Next stop: A man, a plan, a perenthesis, panama. (and other puctuation, accents, and obscure characters that require the pressing of at lest three buttons at once).

Randy

These are some primo numerals, man.
The serifed "one" looks totally nicer.
Try making the "zero" narrower and the "4" wider.

hhp

Figures, definitively the hardest glyphs to design in a
typeface...

Anyway, try making the top of "1" larger and wider. It
seems to be too light/narrow now. The "7", make it less
curvy. And try making the counters more closed (just to
see what happens :-).

Randy, really great to see the progress with this.

TGIF now stands for Thank God It's Fontday.

I'd agree with Dana about the lowercase As.
I like the third one,..

In the text sample, the lowercase a stopped
me for some reason, I think because of the
thin quality of the intrusion near the stem. ???

The Q, if you turn it upside down, it's either a
pineapple (sign of hospitality) or a grenade.

Numerals looking great.

Is this handiwork from FontLab...(i'm always
curious about the software used. I'm still in the FOG)

bj

Hi all.

I've started on a black version of this font. As I mentioned in another thread, I'm thinking of
light, regular, bold and black for the final family. So far I pleased with the caps, but
chose to post the lc before finishing because I was unsure and wanted feedback. I know that

Big question is: does the black lc accuratly hold to the character of the regular version. I
had to add some stroke contrast (there's no other way to get it all in!). I also chose to
emphasis the squareness of the glyphs a bit more. I tried the same and less, and in both
cases I felt like it lost some of the regular's feel. One area of concern is on the terminals
(a, c, e, r, f etc) with the added stroke contrast they can start to look way different. I've tried
two versions of the a. What do you think?

Regards,
Randy

Here's a pdf.
No trapping yet.
Very poor spacing.
Randy

Is that a haiku?
Oh, BJ:
Glyphs drawn in illustrator.
Imported in FOG.
Fonticized in FLAB.
I'm way new to flab and can't draw well in it.
Also can't seem to import direct from
Illustrator without problems.

black black.pdf (60.5 k)

FLAB? Oh dear. That has such a negative connotation! ;^)
I think the M needs a better apex (the middle one)

> does the black lc accuratly hold to the character of the regular version

I think it's fine. But in any case, don't kill yourself over consistency. There are deeper harmonies than congruence. Yeah baby.

hhp

Thanks all, I'll continue with this version then.
Tiffany, what would make the apex better?
Less flat, more point?

Also, I was thinking this font should have
obliques rather than italics.

Thanks,
Randy

Friday's continue behind the scenes. Here's a sneak peak at
the lastest, conveniently, also a lettering job for a client.

Fashionistas, dinner is served.
Funny, it kinda looks like chicken,
but doesn't quite taste like chicken.

Randy

Nice, just the hook on "f" could extend a little bit to right, and "y" seems slightly darker than "a". The "k" is very nice.

Both good suggestions, thanks. BTW it is a requirement
that all clients have an amphibious name :-) Randy

Randy, this is a nice evolution away from 'helpetica.' Go with it.