Of the options offered here, I'd have to go with the second from the top. I think the lowercase italics has more of a Hawaiian flavor. The word spacing needs to be tightened between the "n" and "C". The caps also seem to be a little too bold in relationship to the lowercase letters. You might want to try lightening them up a hair.

As far as illustative elements go, I guess the most obvious (perhaps too obvious) relationship is between the "M"s and mountains. A capital "M" looks like two mountain peaks. I would rather see something happen with the "C". It looks like an arial view of a rider

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the feedback. I will be using the lowercase forms for headlines on the website and in other printed matter as I agree with you about "flavor." How would you propose making the "C" into a cyclist considering there's almost no room before and after the letter for the hoizontal lines (tires) you propose in "second from the top" typesetting?

I'll be posting some iterations soon.

-t

Tim:

I didn't necessarily mean to create the "C-rider" from the current type selections. I was just encouraging some graphic exploration. I simply meant that of type choices, I like the italics.

At any rate, here is a possible direction implementing the "C-rider" using the current type selection. If you were to clean this up a and maybe explore some other elements (i.e. motion marks, angled road lines, curvy road, etc.) it might work nicely. I rotated the "C" upwards because it implies climbing (up a mountain). I'm sure you can come up with dozens of similar concepts, all of which would probably be better.



Can "Maui" be treated differently? Maybe larger and stacked above (cheated to the left rather than centered, but not necessarily left justified). If you did have the freedom to explore this direction, you might customize the Maui typeforms a little also.

Aloha!
Scott

Scott,

Ahhhh. I see what you mean. That's cool. Not one that had at all occured to me. I'll play around with it and other ideas which are now bubbling and then post some roughs. Mahalo for kick-starting me and HAppy New Year!

Aloha,

-tim

Here's a few directions. Have at them. I'm having trouble in general with this logo I think perhaps because the company name has SO long. Ultimately, it will need to work across media -- from a 250px web to 4"-8" lettering for vehicles and signage.

Scott - not having much luck with your clever "C-rider" concept. I can't seem to make it recognizable to viewers and maintain legibilty.

I'm searching for an elegant type solution, but have fears that the client might 'demand' that there be a bicycle in the mix (sigh). How to elegantly integrate such a complex shape still has not come to the overworked little gray cells. I can 'see' the rear triangle of a bike frame in the top right example, but add the rest of the parts and the name becomes obscured.

Maybe it's the choice of typeface? I feel Leviathan is a good fit in terms of personality, but perhaps I need a condensed/compressed font to deal with the length/cross media issues. Don't make me use Hel Neue 107 Cond Oblique!

I implore the typoracle and fellow typophiles to come to my aid.



Freehand does a terrible job of exporting to JPEG. The top right form is supposed to have rounded corners in the spirit of road signage.

Maybe you can use the O and C as the hubs of wheels. I don't know if that can be managed without creating something hideous, though.

> I implore the typoracle

"
I ask the gods, what typeface should I use?
The gods do not answer.
They do not answer because they do not know.
"
- W A Dwigins

BTW, this is primo GIF domain anyway, not JPEG.

hhp

I think that the uc of M is like a mountain. You can work with two-M

Happy new year to every-typophile

OD

If you want to create a sharp JPEG, then save the original as an EPS and open it in Photoshop at 300dpi. Once it is opened change the "image size" to the desired size (for this forum I usually go with 2-3" wide at 100dpi, which is higher res than necessary but I like to see it at actual size).

Yes, if you're going for "elegant" then Leviathan is not the right choice. I would suggest you go for something a little more fun, there's really nothing elegant about riding

Here's an example of a concept using Tiki Wood

Hi All,

Thanks for the feedback. Scott -- thanks or the imaging tips. I like the "T-rider" but...

Perhaps I should clarify the brand a little better. It is not "cycling" ala Tour de France. It literally is a cruise. Customers are shuttled (in a van) up to the top of a 10,000 foot dormant volcano peak/mountain, put on very comfortable cruiser style bikes (fat tires, big seat, drum brakes, wide bullhorn handle bars, upright seated position, low center of gravity), and cruise DOWNHILL for 38 miles on paved road, through dozens of switchbacks and hundreds of turns WITHOUT peddling at all. It's not hard but it is FUN and EXHILIRATING. There is also a SAFETY factor that needs to be considered/integrated.

I'm familiar with the excellent House I Tiki types, but this brand is about what's called "Upcountry" Hawaii, not resort "South side" Hawaii. When I say "elegent" I just mean minimalist.

Still I think there are possibilities for Scott's T-rider and somehow making Mountains of the Ms.

But no feedback on the one's I posted? I want to emphasize the downhill, turning, mountain aspects and the face has to be clean and legible as it will need to be readable on & from moving vehicles and many other media.

Muchos Mahalos for everyone's feedback so far!

Tim most mountain bikes have a distinctive tread pattern, you might look into incorporating a tread pattern into your look. Overall I feel your type is too heavy. When I ride, I don't want to feel heavy, and I ride alot.

Hi All,

Thanks for the feedback. Scott -- thanks or the imaging tips I really like the "T-rider"!

I should clarify the brand better. It is not "cycling" ala Tour de France. It literally is a cruise. Customers are shuttled (in a van) up to the top of a 10,000 foot dormant volcano, put on very comfortable cruiser style bikes (fat tires, big seat, drum brakes, wide bullhorn handle bars, upright seated position) and cruise DOWNHILL for 38 miles on paved road, through dozens of switchbacks and hundreds of turns WITHOUT peddling. It's not hard, but it is FUN and EXHILIRATING. There is also a SAFETY factor that needs to be considered/integrated.

I'm familiar with the House's excellent Tiki types, but this brand is about what's called "Upcountry" Hawaii, not "Resort" Hawaii. When I say "elegent" I just mean minimalist.

Still I think there are possibilities for Scott's T-rider and somehow making Mountains of the Ms. How about the the "Maui 'M'" shaped more like a peak aligned above the "Mountain 'T'" (using Scott's rider, but adjusted to reflect the relaxed riding position)?

No feedback on the one's I posted? I want to emphasize the downhill, turning, mountain aspects and the face has to be clean and legible as it will need to be readable on & from moving vehicles and many other media.

Muchos Mahalos (thanks) for everyone's feedback so far!

Daniel, actually these bikes are supossed to be heavy so everyone sticks to the road

Sorry about the double post -- I only clicked once, but lately everytime I post I get an internal server error after minutes of waiting!

Yuppie street luge.

I once cruised 7 miles down the 405 freeway in my '76 BMW 2002 (dead distributor), coasting directly but gently into my mechanic's shop which was luckily right next to the Santa Monica off-ramp. So what font should I use for my logo? BTW, I have a tan-and-white- beagle.

(Sorry, Tim...)

hhp

"Yuppie street luge." LOL

It actually all started with the founders coasting down the volcano at night in their converatble Porsche (top down of course)

More "directions" ???



I still think I can make something of Leviathan gosh darn it!

Hi Tim,

I think the problem with the above is that there's no interest in the type treatment and there are balance issues. There is a great design lurking in this job. I've seen the vans full of tourists dressed in blue and yellow space slickers sliding on to cruisers as the sun rises over Haleakala. Quite a sight (the sunrise that is).

Here's my suggestion:
I think the reason you like laviathan italic is because it has a nice *bike logo* feel. I think you might continue to push Maui and Mountain in a mountain/bikelogo direction, and contrast cruisers with a flowing hairline script. That will set up a nice contrast and provide interest. Something like this:



You'd have to work out the proportions and overlaps etc. Also, I suck at drawing scripts, but you might consider something like SophiaScript from Letterhead Fonts.

Hope that kickstarts the engine.

Cheers,
Randy

PS. Scott, I owe you an email :-)

Oh, Scriptana could also work.

People are going to find out about this by picking up the little trifold brochure out of a sea of them in the hotel lobby. Talk about pressure. It's up to you to raise the bar. Here's your chance. Shouldn't be too tough!

Cheers,
Randy

Randy is leading you down the right path.
It's all downhill now.
But isn't that infringing on the new Aiwa logo?

sorry, couldn't resist.
;D

But the point is there ... sketch on paper or
doodle in illustrator to solve a logo puzzle.

And pick up a copy of either of Doyald Young's
books

Ran across this recently. Lots of great scripts here, too.

http://www.artandsignstudio.com/fonts.html

Ooo La Laa.

I think you're onto something there Randy. I was just exploring the mountain/volcano "M" shape in more depth, but "Cruisers" kept hanging out there -- lost. The script idea is brilliant.

Cheers aquatoad!

-t

ps - so you've been atop Haleakala?

Great links BJ/Randy -- thanks. I actually have Doyald's books. Time to dust them off and get inspired by the master of the script.

-t

How about Sign Painter House Script?

How about Sign Painter House Script?
Could work, but you'd need an even darker Maui Mountain to keep the contrast. Since you have the book check out how often Doyald Young employes the *one word in black, one word in hairline script* technique: 107, 121, 155, 168, 220, 255 (fonts&logos). The contrast alone could make for an interesting logo without need of a funky MM thing. Too much is too much.

But isn't that infringing on the new Aiwa logo?
No comment.

so you've been atop Haleakala?



November 2002*

Randy

*Not via cruiser.

What do you think of the possibilty of using FB's Commerce Lean as the script face?


Haleakala is a spectacularly beautiful place. I highly recommend visitors to Maui to bring some warm clothes and spend as much time as possible in the National Park.

Randy -- Did you get a chance to hike into the crater?

Randy wrote:

"People are going to find out about this by picking up the little trifold brochure out of a sea of them in the hotel lobby. Talk about pressure. It's up to you to raise the bar. Here's your chance. Shouldn't be too tough!"

Hey -- I got enough pressure on already, what with redeveloping the website and all, but I'm up for the task. As you allude, the "bar" is pretty low -- so there's a great opportnity here.

Thanks so much for your guidance Randy. I'll post some iterations based on the classic sans + script combo that you've elucidated.

-t

I'm now looking at three faces for the "Maui Mountain" treatment to pair with a lightweight casual script for "Cruisers."

They are:

Leviathan Black Italic

Fairplex Wide Black and/or Black Italic

Commerce Fat

Opinions and suggestions are welcome as well as thoughts on unmentioned light casual scripts.

Cheers,

-t

Some light casual scripts to be considered. Any favorites? Couldn't set "Cruisers" for 7-9.

7 :-)

Randy - I agree. I like 7, 3, and 8 in that order. Seems like your initial inclination was spot on, as is often the case. I really like the sporty feel and variable stroke of Sophia and the funky, fun, fresh look of Commerce Lean. Speedway (8) is okay too, but doesn't stand up to the others.

What do you think of Fairplex Wide Black as an Alternate to Leviathan for the basis for the "Maui Moutain" treatment? Although less mountainesque -- it's not so stark as Leviathan and has that Maui "Upcountry"/Old West kind of feel while still being passable inre *bike logo* styles.

7 is really the only one that speaks to me for your application (and it does so very strongly). i love the energetic and irregular connections between each letter.

If Fairplex is your choice (a fine one), I'd choose narrow black italic: http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/emigre/fairplex/narrow-black-italic/?s=Maui+Mountain

Randy

Before delving into the stacked "M"s or large single "M" concepts (both of which I'm keen on), I'd like to get some feedback on the typeface options I've quickly thrown together. Which one do you like best and why?



Aloha,

-t

First or second.

hhp

I prefer the second, but why don't you tell us which one you like and why, then we can react to that.

Those are my top choices as well. Why? Not to oversimplify, but they look the best.

I've been partial to the lowercase Leviathan Black Italic (#2) letterformss from the very beginning. As Scott said earlier, they have the most "Hawaiian flavor." The forms of the lowercase italics (rounded "i" dot, one story "a" and rounded tails) fit the personality of the brand and client: fun, friendly, professional yet casual.

The same is true of Fariplex Narrow Black Italic. When I saw the lowercase forms, browsing through the Emigre specimen book the other night -- they hit me like a ton of bricks. They also fit the brand's personality very well ,perhaps even more so, in that they have a slightly more quirky less formal feel. Fairplex has that Hawaii "Upcountry" style, which is about country living and true aloha spirit with a pinch of old western flavor for good measure.

More generally, both 1 & 2 pair better with the script than the others because they provide more contrast and visual interest. Also, I do like how Fairplex leans a bit less than Leviathan.

The question now is: does one let the client decide which face they prefer? Or do I decide, develop a few directions and then let them decide which of those they like best?

-t

Okay Scott, why 2 over 1 (assuming 1 was you 2nd choice?)?

That was my "snap judgement" (my immediate reaction).

Taking more time to think about it, I definitely like the italic type better than the others, but the combination of italic and serif in Fairplex seems to compete a little with the character of the script. Leviathan offers just the right amount of contrast without competing. After reading your reasoning, however, there is some justification for the Fairplex serif, as it has a little more of a country feel compared to Leviathan.

RE: Client Empowerment - I usually work with the client to define the problem (project), then I develop the solution with as little client intervention as possible. This sends two very important messages to your client: (1) project completion is simple with you on the job because you get it done without requiring much from them, and (2) you are the expert and they can come to you for the answers, not the other way around. As always, there are numerous exceptions to this school of thought, so being that you are the only one who knows your client, you'll have to make a judgement call. My ignorant recommendation is to consider the problem as you know it, then make the font selection.

Aloha!
Scott

Tiffany -- "#7" refers to the script faces posted a little earlier.

Scott - thank you for the diplomacy coaching! Sometimes it's just a confidence issue. Especially when it's the first project for a particular client and you'r not sure how "difficult" they are.

Tiffany, you make a very valid point about the roman providing more contrast and hence allowing the script to pop more. In regards to the stacked "M"s, I'm going to play around with alignment and also using one large "M" for both words or stacked uppercase "M"s which are more interwoven (ala Randy's sketch - see above).

I'm a bit torn on this at the moment. I'm going back and forth between the italic vs. roman at the moment.

I'd like Randy to chime in, as this direction is based on his concept -- which (by the way) favors uppercase roman (i think). But then again he did suggest Fairplex Narrow Black Italic once I brought that face to the table.

I'm not familiar with #7 either, but it looks like a popular script from the 80s.

In general, I would agree with Tiffany's recommended fonts

Oops. It's Sofia Script, new from Letterhead.

Agreed in regards to all comments on the "M"s the stacked "M"s are distracting and whichever faces I choose, making more mountainesque "M" forms will be the next task.

-t

Tiffany's on to the heart and soul of this concept. Contrast. The roman pushes that contrast even more. I think you will also be wanting übertight kerning. Keep it simple.

Cheers,
Randy

What is #7?

Don't you think the two stacked words, with the Ms lining up is too distracting? Wouldn't it be more interesting to shift the words? Wouldn't it be nicer to use all caps in for MAUI MOUNTAINEERS since you are using a script UC/lc treatment for Cruisers? As the script is already so full of motion, should you use an italic for the MM?

3 and 5 seem to be the best starts from where I sit.

The reason I suggest 3 and 5 ... disagreeing with Scott's suggestion for an italic ... more contrast. By using a roman with a script, it allows the script to be even more dynamic.

I meant, what typeface is #7?