$250 package of Neue Helvetica will have 51 variations in weight and width, from narrow to extended. Unlike Helvetica, Neue Helvetica family has consistent design throughout. Helvetica had been copied and redesigned and over and over again so that it doesn't really have consistent style anymore. For example, Helvetica will probably come with Helvetica Narrow, but the design of Helvetica Narrow should really be considered different font...

I'm really an anti-Helvetica and anti-swiss style, but if I have to use Helvetica, I use Neue, because its elegant and refined design shows that the I care about choice of typography, and I didn't just pick Helvetica because it came with your mac.

Of course MacOS X has some weights of Helvetica Neue included, so soon everyone will be using it in conjunction with the much-maligned Comic Cans in PowerPoint presentations all over the western world.

oh sweet sweet helvetica. it is one of the more handsome modernist faces out there. you guys should stop worrying about the fact that is comes standard on the mac. have you guys ever seen a mac <joke>? they are the designers computer so it's no wonder that they use such a beautiful type specimen as a standard face.

just because everyone now has access to a beautiful typeface does not mean they will make beautiful designs. if you are in fact good your jobs are still safe.

Bless you!

In order to save Helvetica from a fate worse than Power Point and Comic Sans-dom, why not start a rumor that Courier is really, really cool?

Actually, I love, love, love Helvetica and managed to convert my partner (took some serious Jehovas Witness-style efforts) who had grown sick of it that he refused to use it.

As for Comic Sans, it just has this, this feeling to it; I'll forever associate it with Garage Sale signs and Lost Dog posters.

(Though I must confess, I've long admired Courier's Q)

Yves! Those are keepers! /I{The quotes I mean}

yves, well put.

I live in Washington DC and the local ABC television station uses Comic Sans as the typeface for their weather report graphics! Big huge maps of the U.S. with goofy, pathetic Comic Sans spelling out "RAIN" "LOW PRESSURE ZONE," the temperatures, etc. As bad as the letters look, I think the numbers look even worse. They superimpose giant numbers next to the weatherman to indicate "today's high temperature" and it looks like Comic Sans figures that are about nine feet high. Truly awful. It looks like psychotic children have taken over the place!

troy, that is amazing. it cracks me up to hear great stuff like that.

I'm really an anti-Helvetica and anti-swiss style,
but if I have to use Helvetica, I use Neue, because
its elegant and refined design shows that the I care
about choice of typography, and I didn't just pick
Helvetica because it came with your mac.

Beautifully said, DJ, I couldn't agree more!

Beautifully said, David, I couldn't agree more! =D

Tracy, LOL

Hey, this thread is spicing up unexpectedly after being
dormant for, like, what? Two weeks? I think this discussion
is somewhat irrelevant, as you can't argue about taste.
I still think DJ Anzai's entry made truckloads of sense.

Arguments about the intrinsic artistic qualities of type designs
only go as far as till you reach the point where personal
taste comes into play. De gustibus et coloribus yadda yadda...

Jay, if you like Helvetica: good for you. Tracy, if you
dislike Helvetica, good for you too. If everybody liked the
same typeface, there'd be only one, and that'd make me
very unhappy (err... actually... let me think. In that case
I would also only like that same typeface, so I wouldn't
know any better. Which means I would not be unhappy,
on the contrary! Ouch, head hurtz... ;) )

Let me finish my entry with two quotes which had a profound
influence on my practice as a [typo]graphic designer:

One can make a beautiful design with an ugly typeface.
Wolfgang Weingart

There are no bad typefaces, only bad typographers.
Mr. Jeffrey Keedy


There is a point to be made about Comic Sans, though... =D

Tiff, Jay, I tell ya, those quotes were real eye-openers.

I apply those 'mantras' on several aspects of my practice,
and I truly believe this state of mind helps me to be a
much better typographer.

> (...) managed to convert my partner (...) who had grown
sick of it that he refused to use it.

While I fully understand your partner, I wouldn't go as far as
to refuse to use it. But I DO need a friggin' GOOD reason. ;)