What is it saying?

I think you should emphasize the smirk (in size but not curvature), and maybe you can use it to break the monotony of the bounding box.

BTW, do you mind that it reminds of MacOS, and a legionnaire?

hhp

If you are treating this like a mark/icon vs. type, I would make a couple of tweaks

Hrant- The face is also a combination of two letterforms, the T and the Y (the T being stacked over the Y). After creating it, I did think of the Mac Os logo. I don't particularly care for that logo. I always find myself looking for a hidden meaning in the Mac Os logo that I never find.

Scott- I wasn't thinking of this as a mark/icon in place of type, but as a combination of both. I haven't tried many fluid/organic versions, but perhaps there would be some possibilities there. One of the reasons that it is currently so geometric is because I have often heard that a good logo should fit within a square (for reducing, placement, compactness, etc). But I'm open to ideas.

Thanks for the comments.

> a combination of two letterforms

Oh, that makes sense.
Well, it's nice and subtle (although the legionnaire effect is there), but then the "Y" will need its tail.

> a hidden meaning in the Mac Os logo

"Don't think - be happy!"

hhp

nice one. :D

Hrant- I'm not familiar with the term "legionnaire". I looked it up and found "n : a soldier who is a member of a legion (especially the French Foreign Legion) [syn: legionary]". Could you explain? Thanks // Ty

I meant Roman legionnaire. But I guess their helmets
were noted for those "sideburns", and not the nose-guard:
http://store.daz3d.com/userdir/images/product.ps_tx253b.detail.jpg

Strangely enough, I have a book about helmets (for which I once paid way too much money for).
Here's what I'm talking about:



The book says it's 11th century Moravian, but now I'm thinking that style is maybe Ancient Greek - maybe not Athenian though, more Spartan? Anyways, it's a helmet!! :-)

hhp

Tying again...



hhp

{Pisses me off...}

http://www.themicrofoundry.com/other/helmet.gif

hhp

I do like your direction, but where did you hear the square thing? I can't say that I agree with the theory

Scott- I came across the "square theory" in my undergrad program. My professor for Corporate Identity said that often times logos have to fit within a square for their applications (corner of letterhead, homepage, business card, t-shirt pocket.) I don't believe, and I don't think my professor believed that this was a hard fast rule, but that it was a starting place, and to venture out meant you had a good reason. Another way I have often heard this idea described is that "a good logo should be able to roll down hill". So anything that fits nicely into a square, like a circle, would roll (probably much better than a square). I think the main purpose of this kind of thinking was to encourage designers to consider the application limitations of a logo that has extreme horizontal or vertical dimensions. But yeah, how boring would it be if all logos were square?

There's certaintly a practical advatange to having a logo with close vertical/horizontal dimensions - but if anything that says "circle" to me. Plus it seems to me that this consideration is secondary to other things in a good logo, like memorability, which is not square at all. I think as long as one avoids extreme lopsidedness of dimensions, it's fine.

hhp

Slightly off-topic but... don't get so famous with your mark that Ty toys notices you.

Hrant, any suggestions in regards to curbing the legionnaire effect?

Everyone, any ideas on giving the T and the Y more distinct typographic traits?

I'd also like to see a more fluid, organic version.

Why not break some corners off your monolith and add curves? Might be more difficult to read the t and y, but hey! thats what makes logo's so fun.

here's a quickie.

Andrew

> any suggestions in regards to curbing the legionnaire effect?

First make sure you want to get rid of it. And Andrew's great idea -but sans the handwriting ductus- makes me think that "softness" might be the key to that.

hhp

Try making some minor adjustments (i.e. round a corner or two, break the square with a corner or two, etc.)

It still looks like a persons face with the eyes closed facing you with a smirk on its face. Maybe this is a good thing. I don't see a Ty anymore.

Does it look like you? If not, why not?

I think the first one (from TY), maybe with a bolder smile as Scott suggested is the better one. Try adding colour, that could help to remove the legionnaire effect.

Santiago-- What do you think about this?

Mmmm I was talking about filled shapes.
Try with and without outlines.
It

Hi Ty.

Could you perhaps show a sampling of logos that you have done? It would help us get a sense of your style. What kind of clients/employers are you reaching out to?

I say all this because I don't particularly like this direction. Cute. Clever. But in my opinion missing the mark (as it were). My gut feeling is that this is one of those concept directions that looks so promising... but in the end is just about a smirking face. My suggestion would be to stow this idea for a bit, and try other things.

If you want to go with this direction, this will improve legibility (though changes the personality

Here are some logos I have done.

I am open to a variety of types of clients. So, unfortunately I don't specialize in theater identities. There are tons of other directions I have pursued for my self identity. I will try to post some next week.

ty, that is some clever stuff. Bravo.

I like it very much!
I think your direction speaks a lot about your work, cute, clever and simple.
I see your logos and smile.

Ty if you want real inspriation, check out the new VH1 logo there is a thread in design about it. Its a beautiful thing (NOT)

Randy - After seeing a few of my logos, do you think that this direction is appropriate?

One of the reasons I have been hesitant to break the box shape is because I think that's what makes it simple -- a twist on a simple geometric shape.

I'm open to comments.

Ty:
I think your original idea looks cool. Also good in the blue version you have above (although I don't think it works as well in reverse).

I like its simplicity and playfulness. I noticed both the "TY" letters and the face immediately, but if some people don't right away, I think that's okay too.

It also seems like it lends itself to embellishments for the sake of self-promo pieces in the future (I'm reminded of the old constantly changing MTV logo).

It seems sly without being silly/goofy.

The world is so annoyingly serious that it's nice to see something with a little wit.

Hi Ty,

Thanks for posting the logos. They are nice, particularly Lucky 7 and Quote 66. After comparison, your mark does seem to be *on the money* with regards to your style, though I think possibly not as strong as the two mentioned above, but stronger than the 3rd example.

Many people here have responded positively, so don't let me discourage you. As I said, not my favorite logo, but what you do with it now will speak volumes also: type choice, stationary layout etc.

I just had an idea: what if you were to design your idenity around the concept of identity. You could make the top of your letterhead into a government form with a box for your thumbprint (actually print each one), lines for your name and info (hand write it in), etc. There would certainly be room for wit in a gov't form! Same for business card & envelope. If you didn't want to fill in by hand, you could type them (ahhhhh. with an actual typewriter). If you are like me, you probably won't go through huge amounts of stationary so the crafty approach could save cash. This would certainly be memorable if it came across my desk. Just a thought to consider.

Randy

Speaking of identity, have you considered my question? It's a great idea well-executed, making your name into a face, but it gives me a strong expectation of what you ought to look like if I were to meet you (as your clients surely will). If you're skinny with a narrow nose and arched brows, people may say, "Oh, sorry to disturb you, I was looking for Ty, is he here?" It's a flexible enough concept to be re-proportioned into a caricature assuming it isn't one already. Perhaps you could show us a photo?

Kevin - You have a good question. I'm not really sure how much my logo looks like me. People who know me well have said: "it even looks like you", but my guess is that they're thinking in terms of personality. Here's a photo:

Can you attach a larger picture? Just kidding.

There really is a resemblance. You have both a strong brow and a bit of a snear in your smile.

Here's a side-by-side comparison of the MacOs logo and mine. Any comments?

Randy, here is another direction I have experimented with. What do you think about this one?

Anyone else have an opinon?

I didn't have any grand hangups with the first image posted, Ty. The type was really subtle. So much so that I started to picture how the rest of the ID would shape up. Perhaps your first name had some emphasis over the last. Or maybe not.

I think the Apple logo isn't worth worrying about

Putting on my caricaturist hat for the moment, I agree you're most of the way there, but for a closer resemblance I would alter it thus:

Find your compromise as you see fit, naturally...

Nice touch, Kevin. It's close...

I'm seeing a swell display typeface in there... something for you to do in your spare time, Ty.

:P

How about this?

I think you're down to personal preference as far as the proportions. Ah, one more thought: Would it be any benefit to allow the bottom two corners to be *slightly* rounded?

Thinking out loud...

...I think that might help both with the 'face' shape and to better define the 'y'.

That said, it's a good mark as-is.

Here's two different approaches to rounding out the bottom.

Vote: the one on the right. You're done. Congratulations. Nice work.

Yeah, the right one is it!

hhp

i agree, you nailed it with the one on the right.

Me too!

Strange how a simple curve on the bottom completes the design.

Yeah, it is the best.

That may be *too* clever for the judges. I think
one of the nice aspects of the mark is that it
can take a few seconds before you see both
aspects of it (the name and the face).

Don't jinx it by making it more complicated. The type would need a lot more modification before it started to really work, and even then it would still distract from the mark, possibly even making it less likely that the viewer will study it long enough to see both aspects.

I agree. I'd recommend just titling it Typeface. The payoff for the clever judge(s) will make it even better. Without any visual tricks, the name has multiple levels that reveal themselves progressively.

Here's another business card idea. When it is closed there is a face and when it is open you read T-Y diagonally. Any comments?

Mmmmmm. Tasty, Ty. If the hinge holds up, that'd be a swell card.

I'm all for nontraditional card dimensions, especially in our digital culture. I rarely keep anyone's card -- I enter the data into my Address Book, and pitch the thing. But this? Yeah, I'd keep it.

wow. cool idea ty.

have you tried a quick and dirty prototype on scratch paper? my industrial design background tells me that you might be in for a surprise when you try to fold it as shown here.

it may be possible with some creative scoring, cutting, and folding, but i don't think it's going to work as you have visualized here.

for example, the Y will not hide behind the T, as shown. (in other words, something that would hide behind your T would be another mirrored T, that would create an H when unfolded).

play around in the material world, if that is where the end product will live. good luck.

You gonna cut your cards with an exacto blade? It's going to be a pain in the butt, but only temporarily. It will be well worth the outcome. What an idea! As long as you score straightly with a sharpened bone I think you'll be fine. I can't imagine you'll be making 1,000 of these.

neat-o.... god, that is so cute!

Great idea! I'd make the fold go up, though: more neutral in terms of culture and left/right-handedness, more evocative of opening eyes or removing a helmet, more compact, plus the hinge will last longer. You could even pretend it's a cell phone and hold it up to your ear to get a direct line to Ty for some emergency design help! ;-)

hhp

Hrant, I first envisioned this card as you described. My reservations were that a) it looked kind of like I was putting my nose up in the air (arrogance), and b) when the card was open you just get some information, a Y and a strange shape.

When the most previous post came to mind I was (and still am) concerned about the hinge, but I thought the pay off would be that it reads as TY from left to right when it is open.

Does anyone have suggestions for types of paper or other materials to use when attempting this kind of hinge?

What if you hinged the Y instead,
since that would have a larger
'hinge area'. The Y would flip
out to the right, so you'd still
read TY diagonally.

Or...maybe mirror the entire card
like a booklet. On the front, print
the full TY. Inside, print the T
on one side, the Y on the other.
That'd give you a really strong
hinge and a more 'even' shape once
opened (plus a potentially cheaper
die).

I think it's a great idea. Definitely
look into getting a die...it may
be a lot less than you think. The
tricky part is going to be getting
it to register accurately.

Also, just my opinion, the blue isn't
working with the red. Red and Blue
next too each other create a bit
of dissonance.

Darrel's right about the blue.

How about this idea? I especially think your name should be in Comic Sans, given the peculiar humor your identity gives off. Um, just kidding.

Daniel:

That's exactly what I was trying
to describe. Well...except for the
brush script. ;o)

So, that's two votes for that
option. ;o)

I am working on creating a typeface based on my TY (Self Identity) logo. When I get some work to show, I may post it on a different forum. I'll let you know if I do. My gameplan is to work in this order: logo>typeface>business card>letterhead>envelope>website>send out resumes

Until then, thanks everybody for your advice on my self identity. This critique has helped me see perspectives I wouldn't have otherwise seen. Some thanks:

Darrel: Your recent suggestions on the card are very insightful. I am going to use one of those ideas, and when I decide I will post it.

Daniel: Thanks for the help on the card. Take a look at www.bancomicsans.com for a good laugh. (I warn you though, the site is kind of slow).

Dylan: I especially heed your advice because of seeing your work on LogoLounge and your site. Your stuff is a bit funkier than mine and I'm inspired by that. I think your a great example of a Designer / Illustrator. Thanks for the suggestion of creating a display font.

Hrant & Scott: Thanks for directing this discussion from the beginning. It was your early comments that challenged my attachment to the square.

Tim, BJ, Andrew, Troy, Kyle, Santiago, Myke, and Benjamin: Thanks for the positive feedback. I always appreciate harsh honesty, but I want to thank you guys for being willing to encourage a direction you liked.

Scott: Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure how those blocks are going to work now. But I think having the best possible logo should precede random applications (at least now I do).

Tiffany, Randy, Daniel, Tanya, HD, BJ, Zato and Kevin: Thanks for raising your concerns. Your constructive criticism has challenged me.

Great News! My self identity has been chosen for inclusion in LogoLounge II. (www.logolounge.com) A huge thanks to everyone at Typophile!

Rockin' good news, Ty!

It seems us type nuts are taking over -- I'll be in the book with you!

Congratulations!

Congratulations Ty! It's beautiful mark that deserves to be recognized.

As far as the business cards go. I like the first one (your post #38). Daniels's hinge with the blue under the "T" as well doesn't work to my eye. I think the blue ground competes too much with the red outlined letterforms creating a "U" and "T"

I am, however, in complete agreement about the Comic Sans. It's such an extraordinary and underappreciated face

-t

i'm afraid i stumbled across this one a little too late to be any help. but just from where i sit i'd like to see an arch where the "eyes" are and maybe a curve at the bottom of th eT for a nose mimicing the curve you gave the bottom of the box for a chin. that would get rid of the legionaire effect and shatter any resemblance to the MacOS icon. But now that you're satisfied with the design who cares what i think?

More good news! My self identity is going to appear in Graphis Logo 6! Thanks again to everyone at Typophile!

Ya know, one of those admirable qualities that I seek when I interview potential employees is the ability to accept criticism. I'm looking at this thread and seeing 110 posts, all based on Ty's willingness to accept that. Funny how things work out; here's a guy who's willing to adapt and overcome, and the results speak for themselves. You go, Ty. Break the sound barrier of design, one selfless step at a time.

Nice work indeed, Ty. Congratulations. I guess I'm a little late reading this thread but here's my after-the-fact-insignificant-because-it's-already-in-Graphis two cents: I did get a Goodwill meets Decepticon vibe from it like Tanya. Although I don't think it's anything striking enough to worry about as it has already proven to be unique in the minds of many scrutinous typophiles and judges.

My online portfolio is up at www.tywilkins.com

If any of you know of someone who is looking to hire a Junior Graphic Designer (preferably in branding), I would be much abliged if you refered them to me at ty@tywilkins.com

Thanks again for everyone’s guidance and suggestions. Typophile is truely a great resource for designers.

At the suggestion of a fellow Typophile, I’m going to provide some additional information:

I graduated with a BFA in Graphic Design in 2003 from Auburn University. Since then I have worked as the in-house designer at a manufacturing plant in Macon, Georgia. My most recent branding work is featured in Graphis Logo 6 & LogoLounge II. I am looking for a full-time Junior Graphic Designer position (preferably in branding), and I am willing to relocate to virtually any city in the US. My original conceptual work can be viewed at www.tywilkins.com

Thanks again to the good folks of Typophile for all of your support.

Ty, I think your last post is really good but its buried on page 3 of an old post. Ask a monitor where to post your employment request where it will be seen easily. Dan

I know it’s an old thread, but this is a thoroughly awesome logo. I keep seeing references to it in various places and it’s great to see how it actually came about.

Thanks epsillicon, that was very interesting and useful.

Yes great thread, thanks for bringing it up again!

BAM! Indeed.

—————
Paul Ducco
Graphic Designer
Short Film Festival

Awesome, I remember seeing this logo in one of my college classes during a presentation of logo design... love it Ty!

Awesome!

—————-:
Jean C.

Autobots wage their battle to destroy the evil forces of… the Decepticons!

Really though, nice work.