I'm not a huge fan either. It has its uses, but they are few and far between.

It's very ugly, arrogant, and represents mediocrity IMHO.

I think it's like any other face. Preloaded on computer or whatever. I've seen it used well a few time, restaurant signage etc… My big issue with it is that it relative lack of character and it was designed by Frederic W. Goudy. Never in my life would I have made that connection, had I not looked for it.

at my old workplace (where i made a business apprentice), our designer redid our logo with copperplate gothic, giving us info display (!) as text-font. what a shame, he's a nice guy otherwhise.

i understand your feelings ;)

We need a typeface that can subsitute Copperplate Gothic, for it has had a large area of use. The typeface itself I think is brilliant, but it's like Optima and all those other likewise fonts, they are so out of date in attitude and personality, and we are tired looking at and using them. But they are indeed very well designed typefaces, and more or less "classics". This is my theory anyway =)

mannered - I don't like it

I always think that I'll give it one last go, just to see if it will work, it never does. Copperplate is by far one of the most ugly, useless fonts I have ever seen. Sorry Mr. Goudy. :(

I agree it's ugly - but well designed as a typeface.

It's not a favourite of mine, but as Goran Soderstrom stated; it's a "classic" & it definitely has its uses (often works well for restaurants or undertakers).
But then again, some might even say the same about Comic Sans. By far the ugliest (though wide spread) font ever!

Downtown Chicago. I took this in February, and it's now up in lights, immortalized. I'd post that but my camera is broken. Enjoy.

Jay-zuz! Which intersection is that Isaac?

http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/wiescherdesign/copperplate-classic/plain-sw...

I like Copperplate.
Tim

Well, its nice to see this thread getting so much attention. Originally, I thought it would just be a flop, but then again, who could resist that title, eh, eh? Nice to see that we also have our first dissenting opinion as well, phew. I checked out those swashes, and really, imho, they aren't anything special. Copperplate either reminds me of something from a sci-fi horror thriller zombie something movie shoot-em up chop off your head kinda thing or a restaurant that thinks they are the first to use this elegant touch of class for all their collateral. I can't begin to tell you how much I have see it lately, which was yet another reason for this here rant!

I used to hate Copperplate and even did a spoof font on it once. I called it Cartridgeplate and made it look like gun shells. In the process, I earned a new respect for it.

ChrisL

do tell more chris. pics?

I think it's just fine. But, whenever I see it used best it seems like the serifs are tinier and pointier. Is there another version like this, or am I seeing another face?

I like Copperplate when used properly. Problem is it has been ubiquitous for way too long, going back to hot metal days when it was one of the few widely available (hence all the wedding invites) and then on to the digital era when it was one of the first to be digitized.

It's hard to be objective about a font that is so overused - are we reacting to it as a font or just the fact that we can't stand the sight of it anymore?

That said I do still use it on occasion.

I think that the last time I used it was to title an essay I wrote sometime during middle school. Even then, I suppose I was just destined to be in the design industry. Really, I understand its place in typography, but, can't it just take a sabbatical, an extended one. This is yet another font that people use for far too many things.

I should have been clearer, I posted the swashes because they reflect the type on the theatre not because they are an improvement on the original, in fact, they kind of miss the point. The 'ugliness'* is what attracts me but ubiquity can spoil a typeface.
Tim
*I'm making an assumption on what that is

Nate—
Monroe between Dearborn and State. I took my morning class there yesterday to look at it.

"do tell more chris. pics?"

I will dig it up at home tonight.

ChrisL

Matthew,
Here you go...

ChrisL

Chris did you make that font for Dick Cheney?

As for Copperplate its a bit like the Spam song from Monty Python. "I'll have Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Eggs and Spam." That might be a little to much Spam and I think its the case with Copperplate. To much of any typeface can turn you off. Remember the good old days in the 70's when all the type was Helvetica minus tracking and minus leading (now that was a horror story)

Dan,
I made it in 1994 before I knew there was a Cheney. I'll bet it might work well for cover tiitle of one of the humor books about him though:-)

ChrisL

I thought a factor in Copperplate's popularity was specifically that at small sizes on business cards, the tiny serifs give a strong impression of extra crispness to the outline?

Copperplate reads extremely well at small sizes. It does look crip, it just looks like old bank stationery.

ChrisL

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with Copperplate, it was just way past run into the ground by the time Seattle's Best Coffee came along and made the unfortunate choice of basing their "Hey, it's red and gold, not green and white" pathetic rip on Starbucks' corporate ID around it.

i don't hate Copperplate, but i rarely think it's used properly. i have to say i liked it when they used it for Seabiscuit though. it thought it fit very well with that film/period (and maybe much of why i liked it was because it felt like a refreshing change from every other film that uses Trajan).

Yes, it was perfect for Seabiscuit.

ChrisL

I don't mind Copperplate, for limited, specific uses. I can't think of anything more bizarre than that Swashes version though.

If you want an alternative to Copperplate Gothic, consider using Jim Parkinson's Modesto Family, a display typeface for newspapers. It's available retail at Myfonts, Phil's and Faces.

Here is a bit of humor for you all, I laugh everytime I see this scene in American Psycho. A nice satire on the 80s; the pronunciations and names make me laugh, it also features Copperplate.

http://negativespace.ca/misc/businessCards.avi

(You will need the DivX plugin to view)

Ah, that scene is brilliant! Haha - Copperplate in it's right environment :)

I was a big Copperplate fan before I became more type-aware and realized that it was everywhere already and often linked with mediocrity. I still like it, but wouldn't choose it without a very good reason. 'Seabiscuit' is a good example, Chris.

Interestingly, this thread has gone from 9 negatives, throw in a few neutral points, then to 9 positives for copperplate.

here's the most recent use of Copperplate.

I'm with Rugen. It might look best in metal, maybe 8 pt.

Let me put in another positive for Copperplate and add in the required "In the right environment" clause :)

It also seems like a lot of times it's either artificially extended or condensed which just don't help it's popularity with communities like ours.

Copperplate is still a useful typeface when you letterpress. Just as Goudy Sans improves when letterpressed, so does Copperplate.

I would LOVE to see some Goudy Sans letterpressed? Tiff, got any samples???

I saw a menu being printed up today... Copperplate stretched with Arial body text. Weeeeeeee!!!

Copperplate was originally designed to mimic letters engraved in copper or brass plate, for wall plaques, monuments, tombstones and the like. These days it gets printed in ink on all kinds of other materials---no wonder it usually looks so incongruous and out of place. Look closely at 19th century buildings and monuments and you'll find copper plaques with Copperplate used the way it was meant (designed) to be, "...with corners sharpened with a flick of the burin." That doesn't preclude printing it with ink, as long as the treatment is very strict and conservative.

Copperplate is not an inherently ugly font, but terribly misused. Goudy was one of the few type designers of genuine artistic ability. Typographers who say they dislike his fonts haven't acquired the requisite taste for his form of expression. Give it time and you'll eventually get it.

Besides, associating ugly fonts with Fred Goudy (in the case of Copperplate) is erroneous because Copperplate's letter forms were not Goudy's invention. This blurb from Gert Wiescher suggests the font we know as Fred Goudy's "Copperplate" is only one interpretation of a widespread 19th century engraver's letter form: "...Among others (for example Deberny & Peignot) F. W. Goudy’s cut for ATF around 1901 is probably the most widely known."

j a m e s

how about this one?

Aaah, duotone, another overused design element, how long did the sleeve designer think before saying, “I know, it's called Duotones, so…”?

Tim

Thanks for the info James! Thats kind of a relief.

"Copperplate is not an inherently ugly font, but terribly misused."
Precisely, James. As it happens with a myriad of typefaces which got over-exposed in recent years.

Copperplate is meant to be used in very small sizes, with discretion, and in black on white. More or less like the original Microgramma (Eurostile predecessor by A. Butti) was.
Using typefaces like they do today destroys all their context.
It is like judging a person's behavior as a whole by a single act.
Truly aberrant.

Other possible examples:
· increasing the "Cap height" of Emigre's Democratica;
· applying a tridimensional cheap effect to typefaces imitating handwriting or calligraphy;
· using blackletter faces to represent "evil";
· using ITC Garamond to typeset a book in 11 pt. size (or less).

does anyone know, {or could advise where to start looking!}
on the subject of the "true" copperplate gothic eg: {32AB, 29AB etc etc}
and the "revolting" version you get in a font bundle,
namely copperplate gothic, - bold or roman...?

"sheer pastiche,...."..!

Aaah, duotone...

Actually, it's just a straight second-colour tint.

Scott, I'm not sure what you mean by "true" with regard to that completely opaque alphanumeric naming system.

The original Copperplate Gothics as provided by ATF are shown on pages 334–349 of the 1923 catalog. Somewhere on Flickr is a photo set of the whole catalog, I believe, so you could start there. (Sorry, I don't have a link. Someone here will.)

The styles that ATF produced were Heavy Copperplate Gothic, Light Copperplate Gothic, Light Copperplate Gothic Condensed, Heavy Copperplate Gothic Condensed, Light Copperplate Gothic Extended, Heavy Copperplate Gothic Extended, Copperplate Gothic Italic, Copperplate Gothic Bold, and Copperplate Gothic Shaded.

-- Kent.

Nothing at all wrong with Copperplate per se. It's a very nicely made face, and it can be printed oh so sweetly letterpress from metal on card stock.

But the arrangement of contemporary versions such as those named 31BC or 33BC leaves them open to mis-use. They are set up as two sizes of capitals, with the same baseline. (I'm not sure whether we should properly call these versions caps/small caps.)

The problem comes with the figures, which are the same height as the larger caps. When figures are set alongside or amongst the smaller caps (on the lower-case/unshift keys), they are too prominent; they upset the flow of the line. It would be best to avoid such settings, but most people seem not to see this or to care.

I got a charming business card the other day from a Bulgarian cellist. Charming because the design (with Copperplate) is positively Victorian, yet this fellow is a proponent of Balkan avant-garde music. The charm of the design was slightly lessened by this mis-use of Copperplate with regard to the figures in address, phone number, e-dress, etc.

powers