I don't think I would say that the lines of the logo "clash" with the lines of the site at all. I'd say the contrasting angle simply separates it from the other site elements, which keeps it from getting lost or ignored. This is a good thing.

I guess the thing that I'm not so sure about is the type selection on the lower buttons (i.e. show cart, etc.). It doesn't seem to share the same pixelized personality as the other type on the site, which, combined with being knocked out of black (maybe try a gray background or keep the black and use gray type), draws too much attention to what are probably the least important reads on the page.

I like the direction of the site. It'll look great when you're finished.

I like the symbol, but i really have to strain to see what it says (even in the versions over black) merntangerine? meatangerine?meratnagerine?

Slightly of topic: Is this going to be a zooming interface like Relevare? Not that that would be a bad thing. I am just curious.

About your logo: I agree with Kemie, that you really can't read the name without some extra effort. The logo itself doesn't really clash with the site but is sure does remind me of a certain 800 Pound Gorilla.

Thank you all for your thoughts. Jon, the navigation metaphor will indeed behave like Revelare's model. I actually had Mean Tangerine completely built about eight months ago, and was ready to integrate the back end and ecommerce when I came across Revelare. If you're interested in seeing what that version looked like, there are some screenshots on www.tyleryoungcreative.com.

The metaphor of zooming in on what look like large pixels, revealing layer after layer of greater detail, combined with the psychological effect of being surrounded by the products/options themselves, made me realize that this navigation system was the best I'd ever seen for a pixel font foundry. There are some slight differences in how the zooming affects the coloration of the site, but overall, are not worth going into right now.

On the topic of tiny pixel type and readability: it is a bit of irony that the logo work has thus far utilized a few of my small, light fonts. Mean Tangerine's trademark style will actually ride on its larger decorative/titling fonts, built in sizes that are traditionally reserved for postscript fonts.

My main reason for going small in this instance is a weariness of the text weight/color overwhelming the logo itself. Right now, I think it erres on the side of safety. I'll try and strike a better balance and post something new today.

I'd never even thought of the MM logo, but that was an excellent call! It definately plays upon the same geometric relationships, even if the aesthetics are handled differently.

Here is an excerpt from an email I sent out last night to some colleagues. It illustrates in greater detail why I like this particular design, and in this case , describes (I think) how it differentiates itself from the MM symbol:

... as it parallels the site with its focus on the pixel metaphor. It also plays with positive and negative space, and even throws in a little theater of the absurd, as it looks neither mean, nor like a tangerine. Thus, the words themselves speak a little louder than they did on the old logo...

Thanks again for your help so far. I'll keep working on it.

At first glance I thought of the Macromedia logo as well, maybe you could try minimising/simplifying the logo even more to three squares in a horizontal line at 45 degrees with a single square to create T.
Loved the menu, not sure that the font used for show cart really works with pixel style.
T

"Jon, the navigation metaphor will indeed behave like Revelare's model."

If that's the case, it appears to be a direct copy of their interface and look and feel, doesn't it?

Tyler, although I like it, I think Relevare would sue you. :-(

hhp

The squares are a little too big relative to logotype, at least as it is used on the site.

I also think it will look strange in the browser if you keep them that big, you'll have an odd space uptop.

the logotype is hard for me to read as well. it hurts a bit.

not seeing the maromedia as much as the relavare...I am sure there is a way to use that navigational motif in a different but 'relavant' way.

ha!

It is a little known fact that the inventor of the wheel actually tried to use it as a doorstop. It wasn't until someone else, who had inadvertently built the world's first combustion engine some years earlier, saw this fellow fiddling at his front door, that the best use of the wheel came to be known, and eventually, used by all.

I have given the navigation metaphor much thought. I can't see how a navigation system can be considered a trademark commercial design. We're talking about zooming squares here. How many sites use drop down menus? Tabbed folder metaphors? How about folder branches? Bread crumbs? Hyperlinked calendars? Weblogs, for that matter?

Still, I'm not unwilling to look at the subject with even more consideration--although the dialog may be better suited to another topic forum on typophile.

Why is it that many here feel so strongly about Revelare's ownership of something as simple as click and zoom? Is it the squares they own? Is it the primary colors they own? I can't believe that anyone really would think so.

I think it must be that Revelare's site is in fact, primarily their navigation metaphor. Why can they pull this off when virtually every other web destination uses nav systems as a means to an end?

Because the click and zoom is entertaining, I think. Intuitive as well. But that does not mean that the idea of squares that zoom to fill the footprint of the square above it is a proprietary graphic design.

So what if there aren't a lot of other's using this metaphor? It's a brilliant navigation system. Not for use in every situation, but perfectly suited for mine. In fact, the nav metaphor reaches new heights of relevance (hah) with my application of it.

As far as the look and feel goes, MT has a completely different layout save the colored squares. I find it odd to have to point this out, but, Revelare uses its nav system as a display panel, while the main information about the displayed products is shown in a completely different portion of the site.

Some may think I'm splitting hairs here, but if we're talking about legalities, we're talking about splitting hairs. My layout, look, and feel, right down to coloration is my own. Unless we're talking about the zooming grid again.

I'm no web scholar, but, I've seen any number of designers base their designs on color grids and primary colors.

As for those who are concerned about Revelare and their products, they actually offer it for sale online.

In fact, I gave them several calls in an attempt to become a paying customer. I received no replies. I sent email. No response.

So maybe they aren't very serious about selling the software they've written. But it does give one the indication that the company isn't hung up on someone else using their metaphor.

I think they've come up with the most elegant system I've ever seen. It seems a shame to think that they'll be the only ones ever to use it when so many other great ideas, from navigation metaphors to vectorizing video, are spread throughout the web and design culture as a whole.

Now, I'm not saying I've taken their metaphor to new heights. I'm simply saying that my application forms a more pertinant, entertaining experience, and doesn not diminish in any way what Revelare has accomplished, nor does it compete with Revelare in its markets.

My goal with MT is to make the most efficient, entertaining, and communicative shopping experience possible. I have many original pixel fonts, and many that are similar to others already on the market. But no matter what, I believe that MT as a whole makes a more compelling experience than each of its parts.

If I were critiquing the aesthetic originality of your home/welcome page, relative to relevare's (which, previously, I wasn't) my initial reaction (or "snap judgement" as I like to call it

tyler:
while relevare might not have an exclusivity on zooming interfaces, squares, or primary colors, the fact that several of us have identified your site with relevare's should be alarms and red blinking lights to you that you have combined them in an almost identical way, and that could spell trouble in many levels. Ultimately it's your choice, but I would suggest rethinking it a bit.

"It is a little known fact that the inventor of the wheel actually tried to use it as a doorstop."

We know who invented the wheel?

Anyways, your site aesthetic, navigation style, and color pallet are the same as relevares. You also both are in the font business. Some would consider the simliarities highly suspect.

As for the navigation itself, this is just my opinion, but anything using Flash and 'zooming' metaphors is pretty much a PITA in my book and I tend to immediately close the window and shop elsewhere.

Darrel, I must have missed the font product offerings from Revelare. Can you point me to the page where Revelare offers pixel fonts for sale? Or postscript fonts?

I value everyone's input, and am fortunate to have everyone's willingness to participate at Typophle as a resource. I will continue to look at the navigation system.

There are some important differences in the coloration of MT that are not apparent in the stills. This is why I said earlier that the coloration is my own. It's not much, I suppose, but as you drill down, MT actually fades to white. Full opacity is only displayed at the root level.

This might not seem like much at first, but considering that most of the navigation happens after the root level, and that the screen is simply filled with color, MT ends up with a decidedly pastel, soft feel. That combined with the white backdrop, makes it "feel" very different from the dark oversaturated mood of Revelare.

I know that no matter what design I published, it would not appeal to everyone. Nor would my products. However, as my target market is Flash developers, presenting the products in a Flash environment, complete with motion, is a very concious decision.

tyler:

Yes, good points...if you're marketing to flash folks, well, when in rome...