*sigh*

>^P

I take it that was the regular version?

Oh well, I did think of one advantage to it. I could take it wherever I go and barely notice it in my pocket.

Now that I’ve finished giving you a hard time, I will tell you I have a friend (we do music together regularly) that is part owner of an advertising company that has 20+ people in the graphics/design section, and I am going to try to make sure they get a look at your new fonts. I have to think that Zaner set would be fun for them to bill to one of their big customers (an eye-opening list, I found out yesterday).

Now that’s what we need, large-print font catalogs!

;-)

Isn’t the P22 catalog free?

If I had paid for it, then I’d be upset.

It’s just that Paul mentioned it in a topic after I had raved about the Storm Type catalog. So I was expecting more.

But something happens almost everyday now that makes me feel old. That was the thing for yesterday, I guess.

P22 has downloadable PDFs. More and more foundries are opting to do this as it is cheaper and it also allows people the opportunity to print them as large as they want.

> the opportunity to print them as large as they want.

Not to mention how it’s actually going to end up!

hhp

I am an old fart at 62 and have no trouble reading the P22 catalog. I enjoyed it and applaud a company that recognizes that their customers love to see things in print. Maybe it is a tactle thing or maybe I am just old but I love the feel of a book. I can take it anywhere and not worry if the “system is down”.

THANKS P22!!!

ChrisL

It occurred to me that what I loved about the Storm catalog is it was done by someone who not only loves type, but also loves printing as an art-form. I once visited someone who made his own books, and there was a similar feel of love in his work.

I guess the problem is there isn’t that many people who appreciate it enough to be willing to pay for it.

And I’m guessing Paul hasn’t seen the Storm catalog, or he probably wouldn’t have mentioned it in the same thread.

And I’m guessing Paul hasn’t seen the Storm catalog, or he probably wouldn’t have mentioned it in the same thread.

*sigh*

You can be sure Paul has seen Storm’s catalog.
The P22 people not only love printing, they’ve
pushed its boundaries on occasion.

hhp

graphics/design

yikes!

The P22 people not only love printing, they’ve
pushed its boundaries on occasion.

I suspect that this is very true. P22’s founder lived a previous life as a book artist. And the 10-years of P22 book is the most boundary-pushing type catalog since that po-mo wave (finally) ended. Yet in comparison to that stuff, the P22 book feels genuine and crafted. Much like their typefaces. If you don’t like the catalog that they gave you for free, I suggest that you check out the real McCoy, which I believe is only $19.99 or so, and is worth every penny!

> If you don’t like the catalog that they gave you for free, I suggest that you check out the real McCoy, which I believe is only $19.99 or so, and is worth every penny!

I wasn’t aware they had a better version. But I have just spent about ten minutes clicking and searching around their site and can’t find mention of this offer. I saw the .pdf page, and also a reference to Catalog #8 on the page with “The Works”.

I know I am going to buy the Zaner Pro set. Do they (like Storm) send the catalog with an order?

I wasn’t aware they had a better version.

It isn’t a “better version, but rather an other product; a book celebrating their anniversary. It isn’t a type specimen book or catalog, at least not in the traditional sense. It is more something to look at and read if you like P22’s work, not if you want to see how all their fonts look and which one you should spec for your next project.

Here’s a link (http://www.p22.com/products/p22book.html). I should probably end my long tirade now…

> Here’s a link (http://www.p22.com/products/p22book.html). I should probably end my long tirade now…

That explains that, and I am willing to admit I stand corrected.

I’ll just finish by saying another inch in each direction would probably sell more fonts. Especially those display fonts that are getting short shrift. I’m really only trying to help.

*sigh*
: )

Btw,

> > graphics/design

> yikes!

What is yikes about this? Did I not call it the right thing? I was just repeating what I thought he told me.

Someone asked me if I was playing dumb here. - Nope. It just comes natural.

THANKS P22!!!

I’m with you on this, Chris! I appreciate having things like catalogs printed on paper — such a stable “interface”! :-)

What is yikes about this? Did I not call it the right thing?

i don’t personally like it when people refer to designers as graphics people (or graphics design, or graphics/design)…it rubs me the wrong way because the only people who i’ve heard use it, usually don’t know much about this amazingly powerful and influential field.

the plural “graphics” sort of commoditizes what we do as if we are the makers of some sort of widget or something.

“i’ll get this to my graphics guy, and he’ll whip something up in no time (and not much cost)”

although i wish there were another term, graphic design (singular) is preferable in this case because it has more to do with visual communication than with simply producing “graphics”. graphic design is a profound practice that affects everyone’s lives, and it just bugs me that we don’t get the respect and prestige we deserve…

it probably isn’t that big of a deal to you, but i live and breath this stuff…

> it probably isn’t that big of a deal to you, but i live and breath this stuff…

No, you all are getting to do what I wish I could have done if I had been able to show some artistic ability back before there was computers. I always got an A in art, but I recognized that I had no skill of the kind I admired.

I have nothing but respect for good graphic designers. Every once in a while I am put in my place when I see some magical output from a Photoshop genius or illustrator.

On the other hand I see things that indicate that some people are making it completely without any talent. Go figure. Makes me think of the line from “On the Waterfront” where Brando says “I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let’s face it.”
: )

> I have nothing but respect for good graphic designers. Every once in a while I am put in my place when I see some magical output from a Photoshop genius or illustrator.

That’s the thing though, pretty “graphics” has no meaning or significance in the field of visual communication if it doesn’t communicate a message well. For instance, some Photoshop or Illustrator genius could whim up an amazing image or a sublime vector illustration and still be completely pointless in this regard (there is a lot of this garbage out there at the moment unfortunately, I just call them art). Graphic design is about effectively communicating a message visually, not about creating beautiful graphics. This is what I think Nick was trying to say.

Please accept my apologies for veering a little off topic here.

> Please accept my apologies for veering a little off topic here.

It would be hypocritical for me to complain about veering off topic. I haven’t been here long, but may already be in contention for the Veering Off Championship.

> That’s the thing though, pretty “graphics” has no meaning or significance in the field of visual communication if it doesn’t communicate a message well.

I see what you mean. But I have done enough things to realize that an arresting image goes a long way to making a great design for some types of things. Some people, including photographers, just have a way with that. The designer gets the fun job of picking the right image, the right font, and putting it all together. Come on, it is kind of fun, isn’t it? Especially when you can bill it to a customer.

The designer gets the fun job of picking the right image, the right font, and putting it all together.

sure. when i’m working on a project i am excited about, i have a lot of fun doing what i love to do. i guess it’s hard to explain this to someone who is outside the field (directly), but it can be really tough to satisfy the needs of your clients, and even more difficult is to really nail something, which usually combines the perfect solution to the given problem with some kind of innovation that is the first of it’s kind.

(deep breath)

the very vague term graphic design is multi faceted and a graphic designer must be proficient in all the various principles of design, the variety of printing and manufacturing techniques required to mass-produce different materials, the software used, and all the technical difficulties that have to do with, proofing, color matching, pre-press, project management/workflow, archiving, and to top it off, all the larger issues like business practices, consulting, positioning, and of course strategy.

so i think there’s a little more to it than selecting photos and choosing typefaces.
: )

ps
i too am sorry for highjacking this thread. i’ll try to stop…

> i too am sorry for highjacking this thread. i’ll try to stop…

No, this is better than what I was talking about.

> the variety of printing and manufacturing techniques required to mass-produce different materials, the software used, and all the technical difficulties that have to do with, proofing, color matching, pre-press, project management/workflow, archiving, and to top it off, all the larger issues like business practices, consulting, positioning, and of course strategy.

Couldn’t I just hand all this stuff off to someone else? This doesn’t sound like fun.

^
oh but it’s the best part : )

It all sounds so right brain. My right brain and I are in a battle to the death. He just just doesn’t want to get with the program. Oh well, another dream squelched by harsh reality.

>I have nothing but respect for good graphic designers. Every once in a while I am put in my place when I see some magical output from a Photoshop genius or illustrator.

And I need to remind you that good graphic designers work their magic largely in Quark and Indesign. Photoshop is for images and effects, not really for design. Illustrator is unparallelled for logo work, and environmental graphics, and many other uses, but again, not the software of choice for print design.

Graphic designers work their magic in their brains and have had different tools to use over the years (including things not computer related). Tools do what the human makes them do with both sides of the brain. Technique is just facility with a tool. Communication design exists above technique and requires thought process. Some so called designers fail at thought process and achieve good technique; for some others, the reverse is true. We have to complete the whole process from concept to execution to be successful.

ChrisL

Hear hear. I for one am glad to have cut my teeth before the computer revolution. Because type was so much more expensive back then and mistakes/changes so costly, you were required to think much more conceptually from the outset, rather than just sitting down and messing around until you have something you like - or throwing more and more fonts at it until you have a huge mess on your hands. I had a genius boss/mentor who still does very elaborate sketches on paper before sitting down at the computer. I still use his ideas in my work.

My favorite quote of his: if you do something only once it’s a mistake; twice it’s a design element. Saved my ass a few times.

All that said, you couldn’t pay me to go back to the days of hand letterspacing, rubylith, and scotch rules.

Oh well, another dream squelched by harsh reality.

dang… i didn’t mean to squelch anyones dreams. design is an intuitive process and is quite interesting because the skills that i have mentioned above are only the prerequisite to setting everything up, and putting things in motion.

it’s almost like you start off developing the raw talent and abilities of your right brain, then you sharpen your logical left brain skills to learn how to make those ideas work on a practical level. finally, when you reach a certain point, you somehow learn how to use both sides of your brain simultainiously, which is an amazing thing when you see some of the stuff that’s out there.

i’d say i’m at the point where i’m beginning to sharpen those logical/practical skills, but my right brain gets plenty of fulfillment along the way.

———

> dang… i didn’t mean to squelch anyones dreams.

Don’t feel too bad. It was really a heady mixture of day-dreams, illusions, and wishes.

I just get a rush when I do a decent job of matching one of my free fonts, with my free images, and some text I can find anywhere I can, and have it be pleasing to my eye, that the ultimate for me would be to be able to do it with highest quality fonts, killer images like I see in the image catalogs people keep sending me, and get paid for it.
And while we’re at it, I’d like to win the lottery without buying a ticket.

“I for one am glad to have cut my teeth before the computer revolution.”

Patty, you “sound” younger than that. I wouldn’t go back to the Xacto blood-letting days either but I am glad I have no fear of looking at a blank piece of paper and don’t need a menu to know where to start a project. :-)

ChrisL

One of my students from years ago later sent me a note with a comment I had made to hime in class once. He called it his favorite quote. The moral is be careful what you say to students, it may come back to haunt you.

The comment I had made to to him in class (which he quoted back) was:

“A Happy Accident is a mistake gone right.”

ChrisL

fugetaboudit…
———