the icon is nice Tom!

But the Optima seems "just kinda placed down there"; there's no integration.

Personally, Optima reminds me of Real
Estate or Banking...but that's just me.

I do think you can find something more integrated than Optima.

bj

its wonderfull

congratulations, but... i dont know if the nose needs the hole.
i see something strong in the nose, but the design is incredible.

optima is good, maybe you can have a better typeface in your palette.

congratulations again
juan pablo

1.- Add a shadow to the bottom right to the nose,to equalize the black in the hear.

2.- About the curves, you can add something more ideas to the layout in the text.

Nice work!


mh.

>> Tom -- I agree with BJ about the nostril.

That was a funny sentence to read.

Juan actually nose nostrils and he made the
suggestion.

You do have to keep in mind that the subject is sleep apnea. With the focus on breathing I think the presence of the nostril is important. Perhaps it could be made more like an open curve and less like a spot, though.

Anyhow, yeah, Optima is blah.

Optima is beautiful and soft and appropriate. Have you tried the graphic on the left and text stacked on right?

I am working on the suggestions that some have suggested. In the meantime, does anyone have any suggestions of a font that would be better than Optima. I have looked hard and not found one. I know many don't like it, but I think some dislike is because it is mainstream. Thanks!!

-Tom

Hi Tom
I like your sleep icon a lot. It seems perfect for this application. However, I also hate Optima... I think I overdosed on it in the 1980s.

My suggestion is P22's Ambient:
http://www.p22.com/ihof/ambient.html

It's gentle and has some of the same feelings as your drawing. I also think its "O" looks like a crescent moon shape ... (mmm, sleep).

Alternatively, what about Gil Sans?

Good luck and tell us what you decide on,

Troy

Here's another possibility: Formata Light.
I don't like it as well as the Ambient, but it looks a little more conservative, which your client may like.

Fake smallcaps are evil ;)

Tom - you may want to consider Neutraface. Here's a quick example...

Not sure about the small caps - distrupts the horizontal line of the letters. Do you have to have the ",Inc." lettering?
.
Others have commented on the symbol -
nicely drawn!

I'd suggest you use camel formatting for the URL:

SleepTestingServices.com

It makes a multi-word URL much easier to read
at a glance. And kudos for doing away with
the 'www'...that's been getting tireseome.
Just be sure their server admin has the site
set up correctly so as to not need the www ;o)

I have nothing against Optima in general. It just doesn't sit well with this logo, which has convex, "musical" strokes, while Optima is concave and blunt-ended.

Gill Sans is my favorite suggestion. It isn't too stiff, but not too flashy. I want the icon to stand out and the font to fit the icon.

Also, I tried all suggestions on the icon. I agree about the nose sitting on the edge, but I couldn't get the mouth to look right. I like there being just a hint of the mouth.

I added a shadow to the nose but it drew too much attention to the nose.

I feel that Gill has an elegance (and tranquillity?) about it when used in light and possibly regular but tends to get clumsy at heavier weights. It may be just the haphazard placement (cantering the Icon over the type, use of a comma) and disconnected balance between the name and the Icon but I would suggest revising the connection between the words and the image.
I liked the suggestion of using Ambient as it has a unique character about it and the subtle link with the crescents was a pleasing one. I also agree with all those who have commented on the nose, I don

Paul,

love the idea of eliminating the coma and period. I made the regular weight bolder to give more contrast. It gives the logo a more finished look.

The server does that everytime. I don't know why, but when it says that it means the post is uploaded.

I adjusted the nose-any better?

Still feel it needs some asymmetical balance if the type is to permanantly sit alongside the Icon (or mark). If you are wanting to give yourelf the ability to use the type without the mark, which gives your identity more diversity then you should consider doing something subtle with it (like the crescent). With or without the 'Inc'?

I don't think I like it as much (although I understand why others would). I feel it takes away from the icon, but I can be too conservative at times. I am sending it to my client both ways and let them decide. It is a good idea. Thats why I love this board...I have so much to learn when it comes to type.

I agree it doesn't look as good, that may have something to do with it facing south west or maybe it doesn't have enough of the O left? whichever I agree this doesn't lok as good but it is still definately worth considering some subtle change, maybe even make the eye into a closed eye?

1.The hole of the nose makes the 3d.
The shadows do the game, Add it again.
2.Try other "end of the mouth" expresion, more quiet than smiling,
3.You dont need the moon.

mh.

the nostril is absolutely necessary!
it is the only element of the illu that is not connected to the frame.
also, the type maybe is a little undecided down there

(hi everybody)

I agree. Add nostril. Loose moon.

I tweeked the nose and changed the nostril. I think it is improved. The empty space was bothering me. The nostril fills it some.

I want it to be a slight smile becasue she is resting happily because they are clients of Sleep Solutions



-Tom

Looking pretty good tom.

The nostril I think is good, though it's current incarnation appears to pointing the wrong way. Perhaps have it taper up in line with the curve of the nose.

Glad you got rid of the moon. I think the eye almost functions like a moon. Perhaps that aspect of the mark can be accentuated?

the type. hmmm. it works currently. I think Gill is a good choice. but maybe explore some other similar sans....frutiger seems appropriate.

have you played around with keeping it all lower case? small caps?

tis good to bold Solutions though, keep that.

Also, try mark on left smaller, with type on right if you haven't already.

looks good though. you're making me tired ;)

Both the nose and the nostril (I'm glad it's back) look better now. I've played around a bit with that line defining the shape of the nose and my results were similar to your latest.

I'm also glad the moon is gone. I think "pure" Gill does a good job here.

Regards
jpg

For a more realistic nose I would move that nostril up and to the left some, with the end points nearly on the same horizontal.

I tried many ways to place the text (to the side ,etc.) but this way is best. I don't like my logos to be extremely long or tall (unless it is appropriate). I also like the icon being the most important thing, and any other way I have tried the text becomes the focal point. In cases where I have to fit the logo in a rectangular area I will make the icon smaller but keep it in the same place. I also have tried smallcaps and all lower. Smallcaps comes on too strong. all lower doesn't seperate the words enough (I'll be lucky to get my client to go without the period and spaces). I have attached a version all lower. If you all think it works I will try and talk them into it.

I have moved the nostril some-is it enough? I moved it up and to the left some. I like the way the shadow is on the nostril because it is consistant with the way it hits the nose (to the bottom right).

The only other font I liked was Myriad (I liked Frutiger but Myriad's "e's" looked better) other than Gill Sans.

I am trying to make the eye more like a crescent but it looks more like a banana.

The way the bold part of the type is offset from the logo is disturbing. Maybe you should make the type two lines: a wide, loose and light "SLEEP"; a narrower and darker "Solutions"; and dump the "Inc".

Gill is working well, but if you could find a font that has compatible soft and rigid styles*, you could use the first for "SLEEP" (to evoke... sleeping!) and the latter for "Solutions" (to evoke technology).

* Like Dirk Wachowiak's Generation (a TDC winner), which you can get from FontShop or type.co.uk, or maybe directly from AcmeFonts.

hhp

I just had an idea:
What if you make the sides of the logo rectangle bulge out slightly? As in pillow.

hhp

Echoing earlier comments, why would someone want "Inc." as a component in a logo?

My feeling is that it detracts, saying something like, "I want you all to know that we're a legal corporation." But what is it really conveying?

ALS

maybe try making the stroke of the nose a wee bit lighter in places like around the bridge bit. you can even go as far as introducing lighter stokes in the eyebrow, eye and mouth... kinda like you did with the hair.

also, i agree with hhp on the way the type is set at the moment is disturbing to a certain extent.

good luck x

Tom:

I would go with Hrant's suggestion regarding bowing the sides of the icon. The logo is currently a bit boring with the straight, vertical, rectangular icon perpendicular to the straight horizontal logo type. This new shape would create a much more interesting logo. The icon illustration has come along well, but the overall logo has been missing that element that makes it worthwhile to spend time looking at...I think Hrant has suggested an excellent solution.

Thanks for the great suggestions! I am going to follow through on the "bowing" suggestion and make it work. I work with cronos. I closing on my house today and moving this week so it might take some time.

-Tom

Hi Tom.

Let me add another font to the suggestion mix.
My current drool: FF Eureka Sans
It will give a little more personality than the Gill and the
venetian style e (in a sans no less) is nicely relaxed.
There's also a condensed version.

Give it a look.

My contribution to the type suggestion pool would be TheSans & maybe Sun (both from lucas fonts). The latter's a tad wierd choice(?), but maybe it'll make the logo interesting.
I would go in the direction of a more relaxed font. something alittle curvy and soft.

I felt from the start [of the thread] there's something unappropriate about putting the illustration in a rectangle. I would either soften it up, as hrant suggested, or try to make the logo work without it. Maybe the frame could somehow fade in some areas.. I feel it sort of contrasts with the tranquil sleeping girl.
Actually, taking away the frame is probably a suggestion thats way too drastic. There are better solutions around. How about softening the joints of the face lines & the frame?

its a really really nice illustration in my opinion. the softness conveyed is lovely.

the nostril is a hot issue here! i think the current nostril is a tad too pointy. i liked the softness of the mouth and the eyebrow, and it sort of fades when you look at this nostril.
Allso, I have no idea why, but this nostril looks more eastern to me. It makes her look like an indian girl.

JPG - say, in art school, did the other boys make fun of your name? :D

What I have a problem with is that the Illustration overwhelms the name. Depending on the size I'd screen back the Illustration to punch the name of the company. Dan

I was thinking of the company name being vertical on the right side of the square maybe splitted or justified.

Just a quick idea:

Just a quick idea:

double post, sorry, dont think this forum likes opera!

If you want something close to Optima then how about Signata?
It could be used along with Formata (as Troy suggested)

Mike's idea doesn't look bad, but I think the frame width/weight should equal that of the bold type, or vice-a-versa. Maybe even try connecting the letter extensions (i.e. "p" decender, etc.) to the frame

Taking Mike's idea up, you could make the line dividing illustration and text follow the text height (all the same weight) and be a wave looking like a pillow the girl is resting on. The outside box could be a different weight from the divider.

Being not a designer gives me this perspective: I think you designers looking at this stuff all day get jaded on a good type design much sooner and stay that way much longer than the public who is going to look at your work. This is something I think to take into account, eg. when considering Optima, which I think suits this design very well.

very good point about the angle of the face Scott, tried again and added soem cute zzz!

If they're stacked, maybe you should use the same font for both words. Perhaps the Solutions (luckily, with no decenders) could be cropped into the frame at the bottom