and the poster. dimensions are 1000mm x 460mm.

Kris,

One question: did you notice some of your round
letters seem taller than the straight ones on
the poster (G/C/Q/O)? That's strange because the
upper specimen seems fine to me.

BTW, your double O is really something

>>did you notice...

Yes. I have noticed that. But It is probably because
it is a screenshot from InDesign, and I haven't hinted
the glyphs properly for screen. They are fine in a
printout.

Woah, I really like this. You should make a double o glyph in lower case too.

It has a very nice Art Deco feel, and I love the numbers for some reason.

It definitely screams for more alternates and ligatures.

>>You should make a double o glyph in lowers case too

?? You mean that I should make a lc then make a 'oo'
glyph? I haven't done a lc yet, but I'll get around to it
one day...

I think that this one is amazing, and lovely..
( And quite 'retro', in a good way.. )
Very nice, Kris..

Well done!

On the screen, the spacing looks a bit tight. But if you gonna use this for display its good. Beware, when you use it for typesetting smaller than 18pts, because then you should give it more space.

Greetings,
Jacques

PS: Typemedia is good. I live in the hague (holland), where the academy is. ANd I know a few guys who follow(ed) the course and the teachers. You should try to get here.

I

Nice stuff. just a comment on OsF figures. They looks to big. They are too open compared to the caps. Make them narrow, and less contrast between ascenders/descenders and the xheight, bit like Georgia if you follow me.

And the spacing of the caps is a bit narrow for such typical combinations HHHH

"?? You mean that I should make a lc then make a 'oo'
glyph? I haven't done a lc yet, but I'll get around to it
one day..."


You know, I had a reason for saying that when I made my post, but I can't for the life of me remember why I said it now. Now I just feel stupid because there are no lowercase letters...

:sigh:

>more alternates and ligatures.

I agree with Chris. These are so strong, that given the probable use of this font more would enhance it.

You might consider making a shorter J - more on the order of the tail of the Q the standard, and the long descender an alternate. Also should the foot of the L be a little shorter for spacing purposes?

In this installment of daidala:
http://daidala.com/07feb2003.html
Jon Coltz interviews Jonathan Hoefler, and if I remember rightly, here Hoefler he says some interesting things about an all upper case font vs one with lower case. This might interest you as you consider where to take this.

Your font is lovely, Kris! I feel like Rodolfo that the E stands out a bit with its high cross bar and the shape of the curved foot. What about a traditional angular form with that little upswing you show at the L? And if so, would that detail look good on the standard Z as well?

Yay! I was following the other thread as well, and
really liked the design. I'm glad it's being extended
into an entire alphabet.

love that double O... and the alternate Z as well!
Good work!

Jean: here are the new numerals. I am not sure what
you mean by the "georgia" reference. Care to explain?

Peter: A regular 'E' looks peculiar, with or without a
curved foot. That was one of the first things I tried, it
just doesn't seem to work with the rest of the letters
in the word "elizabeth", which is my test word because
of my mum's shop - the reason I am making this face.
The upswing on the Z looks a little odd as well.

William: here is a shorter 'J'. I also made the foot on the
'L' a little shorter as well. Daidala - thanks for the link!
I didn't know about this site, there are some wonderful,
well written articles there.

I will make some more ligatures at some stage, but now
I have to concentrate on getting things printed for the
exhibition. Thanks all for the comments and
encouragement!

Georgia effect: less difference between figures ascenders/descenders and the figure xheight.

With your last example, i still think that the caps spacing is too tight and numerals too big to wide. They don't seems to be on same size.

Kris, I guess what J-F means is, if you are going to create the oldstyle figures, you should have the lowercase characters. Or, you should have an "idea" of the x-height, at least.

The way it is, your typeface looks like an "all-lowercase" alphabet, not an all-caps one.

For example. In most type families, both oldstyle and lining versions of "6" and "8" will have the same height. Which is usually something very close to the caps-height. In your sample, the oldstyle "8" is taller/bigger than the lining "8". That's why "they don't seem to be on same size."

Hope this can help you. :-)

The way it is, your typeface looks like an "all-lowercase" alphabet

More like an all-small-caps alphabet. That

Oh. Those kind of numerals! As the font stands now, the
current "uppercase" glyphs were my past "lowercase"
or smallcaps. I had this hangover when I made the
lowercase numerals, so it was making sense to me
in a perverse kind of way. So here are the new ones.
Please forgive the spacing, that will be fine

At first sight, the hanging figures looks better,
but they're still too light. Anyway, Kris, please
set the letters and the numbers in a smaller size,
and in the same line (like in Rodolfo's sample of
Georgia). It's hard to judge when they aren't side
by side, in a same line.

Kris: its getting better, continue to improve them in this direction! Don't try to follow the zero when you design 6 and 9, its a difderent story. The 1 can be wider too.

(last, I agree with Eduardo and Rodolfo comments indeed)

Eduardo - Right. Make them smaller! I keep forgetting
that you people are veiwing these 'cold'.

Jean - What is a better way of designing the 6 & 9 if I
am not to follow the 0? Forgive me, I am self taught,
and haven't the benefit of professional tutorage.

thanks all!

That backwards F looks way too much like a J. I keep reading "...her numerals look Jake", which of course is completely wrong. heh.

>>the backwards F...

Wow! A truly multi purpose letter...
: )

The figures: just make them slightly heavier (I
still think your typeface looks like all-small-caps,
because of those figures, but anyway ;).

"F": in that context, it may be easily misread as a
"J". But I think it'll work fine for other situations.

In the 'Old Georgia' model that Rodolfo supplied, it seems that the lower numbers extend higher than in your showing, and the high numbers - 6,8 - are only cap height, whereas yours are higher.

Note, though, that this 'unicase' numeral experiment was dropped for Georgia. I think that your lining figures go well with your all-cap alphabet, and the hanging numerals should be reserved for a small cap or lower case font.

This morning I came across a nice example of
an all-cap setting using large hanging figures,
on the gravestone that Eric Gill designed for
himself.

There's a picture of the stone online here.

> this 'unicase' numeral experiment was dropped for Georgia.

Arguably against the wishes of Carter, and certainly against those of many sensitive users.

As far as I'm concerned, hybrid numerals (as they're generally called) are superior to both lining and "traditional" old-style for running text, except for fonts with very large x-heights, which are unusable for long text anyway. Lining numerals are horsey, while traditional old-styles are pedantic and less legible.

BTW, it's not so "experimental" - hybrid numerals are actually becoming more common, although still pretty rare. As for their age, some people say Richard Austin (a really dead guy) pioneered them.

hhp

hybrid numerals (as they're generally called)

Hmm, wasn

No, I just use it the most.

http://www.typophile.com/forums/messages/4100/701.html
(Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 2:44 pm)

hhp

BTW, since that thread I've come to the conclusion that the first person to really apply hybrid numerals was Luc[as] de Groot, with Carter a close second. To me the Austin stuff is too "random" and tentative to qualify, although it could be seen as the first seed.

hhp

No, I just use it the most.
http://www.typophile.com/forums/messages/4100/701.html

Well, that doesn

Did you read Hoefler's post of January 29 in that thread?
Carter was using "hybrid" for them, probably way before me.

hhp

Yes, yes...
The fact that Carter used it, and Hoefler and Tobias
liked it, doesn

Oh, I don't like "hybrid" either, mostly for the simple reason that eventually there will be another hybrid between today's hybrid and something else, and what do we call that?!

If you can find a better term, I'll be the first to start using it! Calling them "Carter" or "de Groot" seems wrong (maybe because they're alive), and "Austin" is inaccurate.

hhp

Kris, is this typestyle available for purchase somewhere?

Michael, it is not yet. Sorry! It is
still needing quite a bit of work.
I will let everyone know when it
is ready to set. Thanks for the
interest!

On related topics, this is the business
card I designed for Elizabeth Horne:





And this is an inline version for a
logotype concept:

double