Typophile

Monotype Ehrhardt

Percival Koehl

Greetings.

I was wondering whether anyone here has got the font Monotype Ehrhardt. If so, may I ask where you got it, and whether your version has a full set of characters with diacritics and uncommon characters, especially characters no longer used for writing English (ash, thorn, eth, yogh)? I have a few books that are in Monotype Ehrhardt that do include such characters, but I have seen no downloadable versions of this font that do. Perhaps I have not looked hard or carefully enough, though.

I also wonder whether there is a Monotype Ehrhardt font for the Greek alphabet, complete with breathings, accents and other diacritics as well as older Greek characters used as numbers (the digamma, for instance). The Penguin Edition of John Milton’s Complete Poems uses Monotype Ehrhardt for Milton’s English, Italian and Latin poems, and uses what appears to be Monotype Ehrhardt Greek characters for Milton’s Greek poems. This is probably my favourite Greek font.

Any information would be much appreciated.

I have Monotype Ehrhardt, obtained as part of the Monotype Classics Library a few years ago. There is no Greek version of Ehrhardt included, or shown in their catalog. I'm afraid I don't offhand know what the special characters are that you mentioned. I could look at character map, but I don't know what I'm looking for.

Out of curiosity, how did you decide that your book used Ehrhardt Greek? The characters have no obvious relation to the Latin letters, so unless the typeface were identified as 'Ehrhardt Greek' what could you base that on?

- Mike Yanega

I looked up those characters, to broaden my knowledge, and also looked up the current version shown on Monotype's site, and it shows the eth and thorn, as well as a number of other non-Latin characters. I did not see a yogh, and I still don't know what an ash is. Since Monotype has also begun releasing their fonts in OpenType versions, I expect many of the more obscure characters may well be included in the extended character sets.

- Mike Yanega

ash = aesc

Since Janson and Ehrhardt are both based on the
same thing (Kis) try rummaging around Janson.

> ash = aesc

Is that how "aesc" is actually pronounced?! My ash is grash!

hhp

Dude, you deserve a good ash-whuppin' for making such a poor wordplay... :^/ ;^) :^D

Well, that's a horse of a different color -- there is an aesc, and also an ethel and eszett., but not a yogh. This is fun.

- Mike Yanega

there is an aesc, and also an ethel and eszett., but not a yogh.

The yogh is old Latin / old medieval English. It looks like a 3 and some consider it a variant of the ezh. It has no Unicode number as far as I know and is encoded as an ezh — 0x01B7. For more info see Everson's remarks concerning it below.

http://www.evertype.com/standards/wynnyogh/index.html

George
I felt bad because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no Bodoni

Bowfinpw: The shape of the characters. For certain capital-letter forms that both the Roman and Greek alphabets share (A, B, E, Z, H, I, K, M, N, O, P, T, Y), the Greek characters in my book look (to me) exactly like their Roman counterparts in Ehrhardt. However, when I look now, I do see some small differences, so it may very well not be Ehrhardt at all. If you like, I can scan a page and show it to you.

The book states in its imprint that the book is set in Monotype Ehrhardt. No other font is mentioned, so I assumed that the Greek characters were part of the same font.

Percival,
When was your edition printed? If the book was set with metal type, who knows whether Monotype made a Greek Ehrhardt in metal? (I'll bet there are Lists of the Monotype metal faces somewhere).

I can understand from your explanation, how you could see similarities between the Latin and Greek -- of course I was thinking of the Greek letters that look nothing like Latin letters.

It would be good to see a scan of some of the Greek text that shows Ehrhardt features.

- Mike Yanega

There is Greek type shown for Ehrhardt in
G Haiman's authoritative book about Kis.

hhp

Probably too late to be of any use to Percival, but here goes:

The Greek text in the Penguin Milton's Complete Poems is something very like Linotype Baskerville Greek, an upright, serifed Greek with a very roman feel to most of the letters (what is effectively an inverted ‘y’ standing in for lambda, for example). It has nothing - typographically - to do with the surrounding English and Latin text in Ehrhardt.

The forms of the Old and Middle English characters thorn, yogh, and eth, often found in company with Monotype Ehrhardt in Oxford University Press books (and particularly in editions published by them for the Early English Text Society), are, as far as I am aware, custom sorts from outside the main font (Ehrhardt), inserted into the text when called for. Some confirmation that this is the case can be had by glancing at a book like Michael Lapidge's The Cult of St Swithun, (OUP, 2003), which, although set throughout in Monotype Bembo, uses versions of thorn and yogh in setting Middle English which are identical to those found alongside Ehrhardt elsewhere.

As far as I'm aware, the only easily obtainable (for a considerable price, though you do get a dictionary thrown in) typefaces to contain these ‘signature’ OUP forms of thorn, eth, yogh (and also wyn and the insular flat-topped ‘g’) are those versions of Plantin bundled with the electronic version of the OED.

Another commercial font which contains yogh is Adobe Garamond Premier Pro, which also contains thorn and eth (albeit these last two in their more rounded and familiar Icelandic forms). Free fonts containing these characters include SIL's Gentium and Peter Baker's Junicode. This last is of particular interest, as it is intended entirely as a font for medievalists, and contains the distinctively insular versions of thorn, eth, yogh, wyn, &c, which are not far removed from those found in OUP books.

Finally, it should be noted that yogh should no longer be subject to any typographical confusion with ezh (although a flat-topped ezh is still often used in scholarly editions to represent yogh). Unicode now encodes yogh separately at codes U+021C and U+021D.

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