You might consider ragging your columns instead of full-justification. I think that would relax the look a bit and perhaps personalize it a bit more.

It seems that your 5-col is full-just and your 4-col is ragged. Which are you leaning toward?

Are you going to use a sans serif for the body?

I might consider a friendly headline font.

’Ragging’ means left alignment?

What kind of friendly headline fonts did you have in mind?

Currently, I have Minion has my headline, and Utopia as my body font; but I am quite open to suggestions.

It would be easier to tell if you posted pdfs. But to me the current headline font looks rather light and spacy, you could look at a heavier version (it doesn’t look like Minion to me though). Utopia has a headline weight.
It is okay to have uneven columns, for example four of one width and one narrower, or three and two (not each different) but I don’t think that 12” will support five equal width columns. I would make the images fall on the grid as well, have you got horizontal as well as vertical gridlines? What are your outside margins?
I would choose a font and size and work out your measure on an average width of 40-50 characters (including spaces) and then make decisions on the number of columns and gutters.
Tim

Thanks for the comments Tim. Here’s what I’m looking at now:

http://www.thegroupvine.com/assets/userdata/universities/5/organizations...

More questions I’m afraid, is that the maximum amount of copy you expect for the front page? You need to be realistic about the average amount because you will find yourself compromising your design from the outset, take the front page of the past editions and try to work it into your new layout.
The area above the nameplate seems too large for my taste and the gutter is a touch too wide. Closer inspection shows you have inch and foot marks standing in for apostrophes and quote marks, no fi fl ligatures, the drop cap on the hate story is clashing with the copy, in the Swann story the columns are starting from different points. I preferred the uppercase nameplate you showed in your first post about redesigning, the small caps version is not as engaging. Elements I would start with are: 1. make the story area larger by reducing the area above the nameplate (whose name escapes me) and the index area at the bottom of the page; 2. bring the stories closer to the byline, reduce the size of the byline and keeping those distances consistent throughout 3. experimenting without the boxed story area, try vertical rules to separate stories or doing without them if the picture covers the width of the columns the stories should appear separated anyway.
I hope I am not being too negative on the layout, there are some positive developments but it does need refining.
Tim

There’s no such thing as too negative, Tim. I REALLY appreciate the help. I’d like to get this right, if not perfect.

I’ll rework in some of the suggestions over the next couple days... stay tuned. I’m going wine tasting today (it’s Spring Break) and I suspect that I won’t be coherent enough by the end of it to make this look any better.

Question regarding curly quotes: I’ve enabled the option under Preferences>Application>Interactive, however it doesn’t actively replace the inch and foot marks with curly quote. Is there a better, more effective way of doing this?

And regarding ligature combinations: Am I to just keep an eye out for these and replace by hand, or is there an automatic way to do this?

From your earlier thread and assuming you are still usng Quark.
can quark automatically fix ligature combinations? – only fi and fl in Preferences>Print Layout>Character is an option button
can it replace true quotation marks with curly quotes? – yes in Preferences>Application>Interactive is an option button for smart quotes

Unfortunately for some reason which I cannot find an answer for, since it seems to be inconsistent, occasionally quotes don’t get replaced, the alternative is to do a find and change, time consuming but worth it.
Stop asking questions and go and enjoy your wine-tasting and remember you are supposed to spit :)

Very interesting thread. I’d love to see the final version.

If anyone wants to look at my final edit, here you go:

http://thegroupvine.com/assets/userdata/universities/5/organizations/21/...

Any tips/suggestions would be appreciated.

Two main issues:
1. Editorial
2. Design

Editorial - one problem:
Page 5 - credit line: who’s Peter Ostrovski - a well known writer like Rick Reilly? Why that huge credit line? What is important the story about the art or Peter (and the photographer)?

Design:

Nice try. But you need to have a plan.

You have a huge problem with leading.

Page 3 “where....fire” - nice layout
Editor’s choice - bad layout.

Page 4, 6,7,9 - nice try; 10 nice -;
Page 5 - bad layout

I know that you’re young, student etc etc. But do it right, or don’t do it. Maybe hire a designer, even for a small fee.

David, you did a good job at telling him what pages were bad, but offered NO advice. If you’re gonna spend the time telling him what you didn’t like, maybe explain WHY you don’t like it and offer some suggestions as to how YOUR way is the best way. I have no problems with critiquing someone’s work, but at least give him some insight other than “nice try” or “bad layout”.

Hiccup. Burp. Sorry. Not again. Burp.

No, no. It was good criticism. Take a look at the finished version and you’ll see how it helped: http://www.pennindy.com/v1e3.color.pdf.

Has anyone else been able to grab the newest PDF? Safari doesn’t recognize the link, I am assuming it’s due to the ’.’ in the file name.

Here’s the link that works:
http://www.pennindy.com/issues/v1e3.color.pdf

It’s coming along.

I would recommend tightening up the layouts by using more rules to demarcate articles, especially between editorial and advertising matter, and above all your headlines.
The rules will also help organize your white space.
The rules should go close to the text, as you have done in many instances: be consistent.
(think of it as the fine tolerance with which a door/trunk closes on a well-enginerered car.)
Don’t use the same fine rules inside an article, certainly not next to the bylines, this is a terribly confusing idea: the design system says “fine rules at edge of articles”.
For the callouts, if you must use rules, use a different, thicker rule.

I know you may be asking specifically about gutters here, but I think that the type is contributing to the unfriendly feel. I think you need to work another typeface in to the design. A nice sans serif like Gotham will friendly it up. The type is looking too bland to me. Also mix up your bold and regular weights - for instance on front page - on the “It’s Art Right?” section, don’t bold the subheading, maybe an italic for the subhead, or a sans serif typeface. A couple other things... page numbers at the bottom are too large, I would make them flush left with the description. I think the body copy needs another point of leading. The rule inbetween the two top articles should end flush with the top of the photo. Ending your rules in strange places will make them stand out.

Alright.. thanks for all the help. I’m surprised by the continued interest, but I hope it’s still there. I’ve got a couple questions — by the end of this (when I graduate), I want my newspaper to be a design monster. A city on the hill, so to speak. Our local newspaper (the Daily Pennsylvanian) has just responded to us by adding a digest for the first time in some 125 years, which is pretty cool.

My questions:

(1) Rules: More rules? Does that mean all the way up next to the headline too? When do you thick vs. thin rules? How much gutter is too much gutter?

(2) What are callouts? And why would I use a thicker rule?

(3) What’s “another point of leading”? You mean from 11.7 (where it is now) to 12.7 for the 11pt. font?

(4) On mixed weights, new body font: point well taken. Any other suggestions besides Gotham I should look at?

Thanks for the help!

1. Don’t be afraid of rules. Look at the way newspapers use fine rules to separate articles. Vertical rules extend to the top of the headline cap height, or up to the horizontal rule above. Choose a paper you think has a good, consistent use of rules and gutters, and follow its style for these.

2. Callouts aka breakouts. Use a thicker rule because the “rule” about the fine rule is that it marks the boundary between articles, therefore to have it appear elsewhere is confusing to the reader. Page layout is all about hierarchy, and visual differences should signify hierarchical differences, if they don’t, they are meaningless. Conversely, visual similarities should signal hierarchical equivalence, if they don’t, they too are meaningless.

So, it would be useful to have all boundaries between articles marked by a rule. Of course, it is possible to do it differently, but I would not recommend it unless you are a more experienced designer. Right now, for you, a “safe” use of rules between articles would give you the best results.