Maybe it is just URW's way of keeping abreast of the typographic times.

ChrisL

well then, that right there made this whole posting worth it. thnx for the laugh, dez! but seriously tho...

It sure seems SEX still SELLS, even if its 'just' typefaces

Dav

I think Dav has the answer. The typeface in question is kinda ho-hum and would probably go unnoticed save for the marketing mind that made it go topless. My joke was actually a veiled way of saying the same thing. I was equating typographic times with the normal fare of marketing prevalent today. Der Spiegel Magazine for years has made me laugh with its proclivity for putting what I call "Babe Glitz" on the cover. Imagine if Time Magazine would do the same here in the States.
You must admit, MyFonts made you look! Would you have given that font a second glance otherwise?
ChrisL

the "not what you're looking for?" is extra funny with that picture. it made me giggle out loud. hey, if people can use sex to sell bubblegum and windex, why not fonts? fonts are way sexy. :)

Anybody remember the old display font "Body"? The letterforms were made out of silhouettes of the human body in various contorted forms. The cap M was very sweet - two figures in profile facing each other and holding hands. But the N, on the other hand, showed one figure holding the genitals of another. Can't find the font (a search for body is useless) probably never digitized. It was in some huge honking ringbinder/specimen book we had in the 80s.

http://www.linotype.com/59873/safefontregular-font.html

i guess this kind of thing doesn't draw the bat of an eye in Europe, where URW is based, but i thought for such a general audience website as myfonts it isn't appropriate. i mean look at the rest of the site, it looks like you're in cartoonland and then, bam! i mean, we got kids in the audience, honey. we wouldn't want them to see [her] in that skimpy little thing, now would we?

we got kids in the audience

Do we? I mean, I've never thought about using this kind of advertising either, but I wouldn't say that font-shopping is a universal thing. You need a credit card to buy fonts. How may kids have their own credit cards? (somehow, I'm afraid of the answer here…)

And moreover, even if there are "kids" in the audience, meaning 13–17 year olds, is it really that bad if they see some partial frontal expose? I mean, they are on the internet and all… it isn't like the real porn isn't hidden away somewhere where they'll never find it.

I doubt that real children (i.e.,the PG crowd, who do deserve protection) are shopping for anything online, much less fonts.

Chris: “Babe Glitz"
In Europe, the best selling newspapers are mostly tabloids. I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but Germany's #1 tabloid (www.bild.de) has a topless girl on the cover (albeit below the fold) five days a week. Don't tell me the PG crowd, or even the G crowd, never sees a paper purchased by 5% of the population daily.

> The typeface in question is kinda ho-hum and would probably go unnoticed save for the marketing mind that made it go topless. [...] You must admit, MyFonts made you look! Would you have given that font a second glance otherwise?

Chris, the typeface in question is a design classic, by the unforgettable Roger Excoffon. I remember its being featured in Caractère Noël 1958. The release of Calypso by Fonderie Olive produced quite a sir in the typographic community. That typeface was as hot as the LP with the songs it was apparently inspired by, and named after (I am sure you remember those tunes). Of course, it all looks different from 2005...

we got kids in the audience

sorry, it was a drop dead reference, i couldn't help myself. are we on cops? harold, are we on cops?

"the typeface in question is a design classic"

I must have missed that one Maxim. Perhaps it is just my personal feeling about that font. Lets just say that I would never buy it no matter what position it held in the minds of others. It reminds me of those awful faux Chinese faces that were used a while ago to indicate something of Asian origin.
My type knowledge must be lacking as well since I never heard of Mr. Excoffin or have seen this font before today. That is what I get for being self taught :-)

ChrisL

I see Dan has posted a link that will reduce the use of Visual Aids :-)

ChrisL

Calypso is a very pop art font.
The prominence of the halftone was a device used in the '60s by artists Roy Lichstenstein and Richard Hamilton, among others. Chris is right, the letterforms are a bit cheesy, but that's also pop art territory. The outrageous formal invention is all Excoffon.

I remember the benday treatment well from that era. I just think this particular usage is major ugly.

ChrisL

One of the differences between North America and Europe is nipples. They are taboo and not to be seen in Canada and the US, but in most of Europe they are everywhere.

When it comes to the Calypso image, I'm offended by the racial profiling. "Calypso is music from 'The Islands', and this typeface is called Calypso, so let's put a topless woman from 'The Islands' in the graphic." The tastelessness isn't the exposed breasts. In the same vein, there is a series of television commercials running here in the states for some flavoured rum which reinforces and amplifies every racial stereotype about black Caribbeans.

Welcome to the 19th century.

Hey mon lighten up and pass the spleef.

(you know I'm kidding...)

Daylight cum an' me wun' go home.

ChrisL

> Calypso is a very pop art font.

Calypso is also a very modernist font. Curved surfaces, "streamlined" shapes, ovals, eggs, etc. are very typical modernist design features. Think of: Saarinen, Courrèges, Noguchi, Moore, Expo ’58 in Brussels, Möbius Strip, and... oh, Barbarella.

Dan,
I see what you mean about the German tabloid Bild!

http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/index.html

The Calypso thing is nothing compared to Bild! Is that thing just sitting on the news stand out there like all the other newspapers?
Even our lovely "National Enquirer" keeps the cover fairly tame if you don't mind the odd "Kentucky Women Gives Birth to a Jeep Cherokee" kind of headlines :-)

ChrisL

Having a toddler who's still on breast milk, exposed breasts seem like a non-event to me. OTOH, there's no particular reason to offend conservative American sensibilities, either.

On the plus side, my discussion of this thread with my wife resulted in our 19-month-old Miranda saying "font" for the first time, which was good.

There's part of me that wants to agree with Chester about the racial profiling question, though.

T

>not that i’m a prude or anything, but isn’t this a bit much for myfonts? or is it just my over-sensitive victorian sensibilities rearing their head?

Actually, your reaction is pretty prudish, but it’s not your fault. Remember, America was founded by prudes. I mean, they forbade dancing and they fled England to escape the wonton excesses of Europe…

>When it comes to the Calypso image, I’m offended by the racial profiling.

Should the lady in the picture be Inuit or something? Racial equality is one thing, but should the little inuit boy on Klondike Bar packaging be Sikh or Russian in the name of “equality”?

>In the same vein, there is a series of television commercials running here in the states for some flavoured rum which reinforces and amplifies every racial stereotype about black Caribbeans.

There are Molson Beer commercials that reinforce every stereotype about Canadians. Are they racist? Why is it that white Canadians are free to indulge in self-deprecating humour whilst black Carribeans are not?

Hey,

No limits right! I'm up for **** in advertising!
Wooo.

ps. Stereotypes are rooted in truth. Because it's a stereotype makes it offensive? As much as I don't care for the lack of class on their part, why not associate it with 'the islands'? . Hey I got it, lets put a fat white guy behind a desk scratching his armpits. That will carry a better message! I just don't get it ! She's not being shown in a negative light at all! If there were dark skinned people dancing there, would you say the same thing. Lets not associate hawaii with volcanoes, OK? Certain people here might not like that, because they are the self-righteous defenders of the under-represented! Here's to making life like a waking coma! Cheers!

Chris: Is that thing just sitting on the news stand out there like all the other newspapers?

Of course! Bild is Germany's #1 newspaper, in terms of sales at least. I'm sure your daughter'd remember seeing it practically on every street corner, although Munich has its own popular tabloid that might take away some of Bild's market share there. I should note that Germany does have serious, quality papers, too, which usually don't resort to such sales tactics. Every country has an array of quality when it comes to newspapers. I suspect that this is quite true in the UK as well.

> I suspect that this is quite true in the UK as well.

There's that British tabloid with the topless girl in the middle.. I think it's the Sun? Anyway I forget exactly what it is but there's a topless woman in the middle of the paper.

Chris, Excoffon designed not only Calpyso but also well-known faces such as Choc, Mistral, and Banco. According to MyFonts, he also designed Antique Olive -- one of my very least favorite faces, though I like the other Excoffon designs.

Giordano, it is indeed the Sun, page 3 (I believe).

Akma,
I Googled him a while ago. I do like Mistral but Antique Olive leaves me cold too.

ChrisL

>>In the same vein, there is a series of television commercials running here in the states for some flavoured rum which reinforces and amplifies every racial stereotype about black Caribbeans.

>There are Molson Beer commercials that reinforce every stereotype about Canadians. Are they racist? Why is it that white Canadians are free to indulge in self-deprecating humour whilst black Carribeans are not?

Indeed, as a Canadian I am well aware that we are silly people, with our love of hockey, curling, maple syrup, and The Tragically Hip. (The best rock band in the universe, in case you didn't know.)

My problem is that these rum ads are obviously made by an American ad agency, and there is nothing redeeming about their portrayal of black Caribbeans. The actors in the ads may as well be in blackface makeup for all of the subtlety of the racism.

And yes, I do find ads featuring stereotypical images of Inuit to be inappropriate too. And any other commercial message supposedly delivered by a representative member of a ethnic or national group. Why do we need to perpetuate stereotypes? That's exactly how stereotypes are strenghened and passed down from one generation to the next. A television commercial or a 100-pixel square type specimen is both the symptom and the disease.

Yeah, I know I'm taking this way too seriously, and I'm probably coming across as a liberal Canadian assh*le, but something like the "Calypso" image shows such huge disregard and lack of sensitivity that it's stunning. Would URW sell one of their blackletter types with an image of Hitler?

Why is showing an Inuit on a Klondike bar racist? Inuit are the major group in the Klondike, so it's representative of the area. What exactly is the evil stereotype? That Inuit wear parkas?

Likewise, what is the stereotype in the Calypso illustration? That in many Carribean countries, the majority of people are black? Isn't this just fact? Having a white woman there would be like a Quebec tourism ad with English-speakers, when we are only 10% of the province's population and only 25% of Montreal's (even if we're a majority in Westmount).

Selling a blackletter font with an image of Hitler would be bad because Hitler was evil and killed people. However, if it were to be marketed with images of steins, lederhosen, and sauerkraut - things which are typically german - it might be cheesy, but not racist.

>My problem is that these rum ads are obviously made by an American ad agency, and there is nothing redeeming about their portrayal of black Caribbeans.

I don't know which brand you are talking about, but most of them are based in the countries where their product is produced. Anyway, whatever the owners' race or nationality, I wonder why the only way to feature any minority on television is for the portrayal to be "redeeming".

Let me make a literary connection here. The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz. Is it a book about a greedy jew, or a greedy man of the jewish faith? Anyone who claims that Duddy Kravitz is an anti-semitic story is wrong. Instead, they are projecting their own prejudices and stereotypes onto the story. Nowhere is it implied that Duddy is greedy because he's jewish (I doubt Mordecai Richler, a jew himself, would be a very big anti-semite), and nowhere is Duddy's faith ever connected in any way to his character. Rather, those who claim that it's so have made the connection themselves, either through internalized racism or some other hidden prejudice.

In the same way, it is you who have made the connection between the negative portrayal of people who happen to be black and the fact that they are black, when in fact the creator probably had no such connection in mind, but rather was trying to tap into a cheesy image like the one of Curling and Canadians or Lederhosen and Austrians/Germans.

It is people like you (and I promise you that I am in no way trying to be insulting or accusative when I say this, but merely pointing out an observation) who propagate these stereotypes by insisting that any greedy person on tv or in a book who happens to also be jewish is greedy because he's jewish, or that any black person on tv or in a book who falls into some other stereotype does so because he is black.

Giordano (and Eric_West, to some extent),
I think it's more a matter of exploitation than placing the appropriate race on the appropriate package. Calypso = ambiguously Carribean = topless black woman = cheap thrills. What is the relationship of power between an impoverished black woman (I'm assuming poverty because why else would someone subject themselves to sexual humiliation?) living on an island whose main industry is tourism, and a relatively wealthy white male(I'm assuming white because most of the pictures I've seen from type conferences are full of crackers) tourist? I'm starting to sound vaguely feminist, and I don't even know anything about feminist theory. Nor do I want to.

I think my point is that the specimen on myfonts is cheap and in poor taste.

Well if you wanna talk about objectification of women, I'll find you a Got Milk? ad with a shirtless Usher with reasons to drink milk written with permanent marker on his body and a few Marky Mark ads. If you wanna say that sex in advertising is wrong, I'll tell you sex is present in our every action, otherwise it wouldn't be made manifest in the media, and it wouldn't sell so well, and it's really only North Americans who are so coy anyway.

And, once again, if you want to make a case against the exploitation of empoverished women, then go ahead. But why is the assumption that this woman is empoverished and being exploited? Because she's black? You've made that assumption. Maybe she's just like having her shirt off. It's legal in Toronto, you know. Hey, maybe she's not even from the Carribean! Maybe she was from Toronto all along. See, your assumptions and those of others have been cast upon the image.

And when you assume, you make an a s s out of u and m e.

I am reminded of William Safire's clever summation of the US legal definition of pornography: 'It's not the teat, it's the tumidity.'

I don't like the use of sex, particularly sexually objectifying images, to sell things, especially when so much such marketing is actually aimed directly at children. In this case, I think its funnier rather than sexy: a visual play on the name of the typeface and stereotypical associations of a sultry Caribean bikini-tops-optional lifestyle all to sell a what? A font license, which isn't exactly something that most people think of as sultry or sexy.

Actually, using Hitler to sell blackletter fonts might reach their target audience...

What I find offensive is not her race (or her implied income bracket) but the fact that she is topless. Are men the only target audence for the Calypso font?

That said, Giordano, I think it's incredibly naive of you to suggest that "it is you who have made the connection between the negative portrayal of people who happen to be black and the fact that they are black, when in fact the creator probably had no such connection in mind". Have you NEVER worked in advertising? I mean, please...

Cheap, yes. Poor taste, yes. But MyFonts is known for their lame promotions... "Want cowboy fonts, type yeehaw!"

And come on, Thomas, how many breastfeeding women stand bare-chested with one hand in their hair and the other in their pants? Don't pretend this is not trying to be sexual... There's a difference between nurturing infants and companies hawking wares with cheap titilation.

Why is showing an Inuit on a Klondike bar racist? Inuit are the major group in the Klondike, so it’s representative of the area.

Ahem.The Inuit have never been the major group in the Klondike and there are very few of them living anywhere in the Yukon and, as far as I am aware, there are no longer any specifically Inuit settlements. The Canadian Inuit are concentrated in the other northern territories, and only in Nunavut are they the sole significant aboriginal population.

In the Yukon, aboriginal groups account for less than 15% of the current population, and almost all of them are indian, not Inuit, most being speakers of one or other of the Athapaskan or Tlingit family of languages. The indian band located in the Klondike region are Han, an Athapaskan group. They are ethnically and linguistically unrelated to Inuit.

John Hudson laying the smack down!

Giordano, you are brilliant and eloquent and I will no longer argue with you.

I didn't say that there was no difference between breastfeeding and using breasts as a clearly sexual element in advertising. I was just saying that personally, I don't find exposed breasts particularly shocking or a huge deal.

This may of course be related to the fact that we have a 19-month-old baby, and that the two families we are closest to also have children of breast-feeding age.

All that being said, I am not saying that I would create such an ad, and in fact if we had such an ad in the works, I would probably object on the grounds that it it's going to offend some people, and isn't all *that* clever, and the argument that it's sexual objectification is not unreasonable.

On the other hand, would we be talking about a 50-year-old font at this much length if they hadn't done the ad? I guess it worked....

T

Hey, that's a great idea! I think I'll do a blackletter font and call it Hitler or Nazifont or something like that. It'll be a mediocre font, with a somewhat shaky grounding in the long and glorious tradition of the blackletter form, but the controversy around the name will draw far more attention than mere technical excellence and beauty would.

Paging Dr. Godwin.

Male or female, I think if all of us spent more time with nipples in our mouth, we'd have much less to say. :)

1. That advertising constantly uses sex to sell doesn't make it either in good taste or ethical. "Sins repeated seem permitted."

2. I generally like sexy women in ads--ok, I REALLY like sexy women in ads--but The problem I have with this image is that it is not only sexy, but degrading to the woman. The two are not the same. It is an unmistakable soft-porn image, as Joe Pemberton notes above. Would you want your daughter to grow up to pose like this for the public? As Chris Rock said in his recent comedy routine mentioning his baby daughter, "I don't care who you are, if your daughter ends up on the [stripper's] pole, you f****d up! If you're a daddy, your job is: Keep her off the pole!"

What chester is uncomfortable about I suspect is only indirectly a racial issue. Because the picture is degrading to the woman, it indirectly raises the question of whether the photographer and advertiser think it's somehow ok if the woman is black and poor.

I am amused that so many here seem to be so scared of being called a prude that they can't say the obvious, which is that this is in bad taste because it is degrading to the woman.

Maybe the ++ in URW's name signifies Double-D? Yes, the ad is in bad taste, but bad taste can sometimes be funny, as someone who quotes Chris Rock comedy routines must acknowledge. In this case, I continue to find the juxtaposition of this font and this bad taste and in so many ways objectionable image funny. I wonder, was it meant to be funny? These little square ads are provided to MyFonts by the foundries, and I wonder whether MyFonts has policies about their content?

In many ways I find this kind of blatant soft porn image less offensive than much of the sexualised advertising I see -- or used to see when I lived in a city --, even if the latter did not usually involve 'nudity'. At least this woman looks like a woman, however augmented, and not a fifteen year-old seeking social approval through sexualised fashion and body language.

>bad taste can sometimes be funny

Yes, 'Ali G' is a genius at stupidity and bad taste and he is hilarious, especially his character 'Borat'. But if this particular ad is an attempt at humor it seems to me a pretty lame one. If anyone can make ads for type sexy or funny or both without being gross I am all for it. This one is gross and lame.

On the other hand, maybe it is just a first try. Maybe there are many more and better to follow!

>a fifteen year-old seeking social approval through sexualised fashion and body language

You mean you don't JUST LOVE Brittney? :)

Sex sells folks, and in this case, the font (sex?) are on sale, reduced from $39.00 to 19.50 for the month of January, nobody mentioned this I think. This discussion is ok, but really, let's get back to work. Oh, can you find porn on the web easily? You bet. And I don't have to tell you how to get there. Let's focus on type design and it's associated stuff. Jordan

When I was in my mid-teens I traveled with a school group to a Inuit community in the Northwest Terriories, (now in Nunavut.) When we found out that "eskimo" means "one who eats raw meat", we asked one of our hosts how he felt about being called eskimo. He said, "Well, we do eat raw meat. Be I prefer 'Inuit'."

I'll just reiterate here that my objection isn't to the bared breasts, but to the source of the advertising: A German foundry. As a Canadian I am allowed to make fun of my hockey- and curling-loving countrymen, myself included (Go Habs!) and I appreciate the "I am Canadian" ad campaign because it was made by Canadians. I'm pretty sure that the rum ads — for Captain Morgan's Parrot Bay brand — were created by a U.S. ad agency for U.S. consumption.

Propagate your own stereotypes and myths if you must, but don't do it for other people. That's not being Politcally Correct, it's just being correct.

Do you think URW++ created this little banner? I bet someone at myfonts.com is being paid (overpaid I'd say) for the nifty and - but for this thread - pointless job of creating these font samples. Probably bored one late night, a little too much ganja, threw this sample together.

Beyond the bare bazongas, nobody has pointed out the fact that she is pulling her pants down.

Patricia, foundries make their own banners for MyFonts.com, not the other way around.

What font is this in the logo?

My guess is that the women is either a model or an actress from where-ever getting paid to do the shoot. The people doing the ad probably had no racist or sexist intentions, they just had poor taste or maybe had been drinking too much 151 rum.
For me personally, the ad sucks and the font sucks--a match made in "---" (fill in the blank for location from New York or Montreal to Montego Bay).
$19.95 buys this font, a Ginsu Knife, "the Greatest hits" of any second rate singer, or a "Clapper". Spend wisely.

ChrisL

Oh, can you find porn on the web easily? You bet.

exactly. i just was hoping myfonts wasn't gonna be one of those places.

I didn't notice the ethnic origin of the model in the Calypso banner at first. It was only because I was trying to figure out what started the racist claims that I went back to myfonts.com and noticed.

I don't know what that says about me (if anybody asks me I call myself Afro European).

I don't know the font in the loaded logo, but the model is Abi Titmuss, which seems singularly appropriate.

Richard