I am working on a project right now where I am accenting Mrs Eaves with t.26 opsmarckt
http://www.myfonts.com/search?search%5Btext%5D=opsmarckt

A companion? Maybe something also poorly spaced?

hhp

Is that envy or jealousy Hrant?

***

How about a sans from another historical revisionist, Frantisek Storm?
Sebastien?

I'm too full of myself to feel either of those. Plus I've never lusted after either popularity or money. On the other hand, neither am I blinded by fawning admiration (especially not towards a display designer), eager to feel proxy offence or engage in misguided defence.

Mrs Eaves is poorly spaced; and a person who sees
and admits that is better off than one who doesn't.
But I do wish somebody would respace it, since its
black forms are quite nice, especially in the italic.

hhp

Hrant, his isn't about Mrs Eaves, Ms Licko, or Mr Shinn, it's about you.

Perhaps you'd be a little less dyspeptic towards other people's type designs (with the exception of Legato, of course) if your own were commercially successful -- but that's impossible if they're not on the market. Please, publish Patria, give us all a break, and make this corner of the world a more pleasant place.

See Mrs Eaves.

For the record, I had no hand in that wiki; but the poor spacing issue is mentioned... And in fact it used to be much more candid before the spinally-challenged watered it down.

Nick, why is it so hard to admit there's a problem? Puppy love? Your hypersensitive idolatry of Licko is quite strange, especially at your age, especially a decade after it's no longer fashionable. And I know how important fashion is to you. But most of all I think it's misplaced because your work is better!

The war is over if you want it? I guess you don't want it. To me, the war is natural, it just has to be balanced. And most of all, when you see something good/bad enough to point out, you do so. Mrs Eaves is a prominent font, so it naturally gets extra attention; the more it's used by indiscriminating designers, the more people like me will point out the beautiful blonde's speech impediment.

Commercially successful? Maybe I should become a prostitute.
But then I can't have people like Nick thinking I'm untouchable.

hhp

thankyou

thankyou

It seems most if not all the Emigre fonts are very loosely spaced. I don't have a problem with that at relatively small text sizes. I site Visa and Tarzana as examples. If I need to use them at larger text sizes its really not a problem in either Illustrator or InDesign to use the option/left arrow key combination to tighten up the spacing.

My favorite alternative: FF Atma

hrant and Nick:

It's a lot of fun to see the type-literati argue, I must say. ;-)

Clever quips and insults, highbrow expressions of distaste . . . priceless.

"Well we shall see . . ."
"Yes, we shall."
"That's right, we will be seeing very soon."
"indeed."
"hmmm . . .indeed."
"Well, good day to you then."
"Yes indeed, then run along now, off with you."
"I said GOOD DAY!!!!!"

(Sorry, I'm having fun at all of your expense, but I do it because I like you guys.)

Stephen isn't Mrs Eaves a step child of Baskerville?

Dan, loose spacing actually muffles spacing flaws. And, as you say, loose spacing actually helps at smaller sizes. But -unlike other Emigre fonts- Mrs Eaves isn't just loose, it's erratic. Robin Kinross has equated Mrs Eaves to a loose bicycle! :-)

Anyway, back to trying to help Coral*:
If you must use Mrs Eaves, maybe something like Futura would pair well?

* What a nice name btw.

> isn’t Mrs Eaves a step child of Baskerville?

So their relationship wasn't only adulterous, it was also incestuous?! Kidding. Mrs Eaves is basically a highly personal revival of Baskerville (which to me is generally a more worthwhile thing that a literal revival).

hhp

Palatine: Back to back they faced each other, drew their knives and shot each other…

Sounds like a Johnny Wu movie. But I get to be the bad cop, PLEASE!!

hhp

Hrant don't you know that poem, well sort of poem?

Poem?! Now you're gonna up 'n invoke Giampa...

hhp

Here is how it goes: One bright day, in the middle of the night, two dead boys got up to fight. Back to back they faced each other, drew their knives and shot each other. A deaf policeman heard the noise and came and arrested the two dead boys. If you don't believe this lie is true, ask the blind man he saw it too. (there about a dozen different versions of this)

Dan,
Hrant is too young for that one. I remember it well but can't remember who first said it--do you?

ChrisL

BTW-I like the "Dan Weaver Graphic Design" play of letters in your new avatar!

Chris I think I read that: One bright day… goes way back in time, I think originally from England. A google search can give you more info.

As for the avatar, it a reflection on the weather here. It reminds me of a song thats getting heavy air play on my jazz station: But baby its cold outside.

Reminds me of the Larry Niven story where the guy draws the pentagram
on the devil's belly, causing recursive (and hence endless) manifestations.

--

I forgot:
> My favorite alternative: FF Atma

BTW, to me a great alternative to Mrs Eaves is Foundry's Wilson.

hhp

Dan,
That song I know:
"I really can't stay - Baby it's cold outside
I've got to go away - Baby it's cold outside
This evening has been - Been hoping that you'd drop in
So very nice - I'll hold your hands, they're just like ice
My mother will start to worry - Beautiful, what's your hurry
My father will be pacing the floor - Listen to the fireplace roar
So really I'd better scurry - Beautiful, please don't hurry
well Maybe just a half a drink more - Put some music on while I pour"

ChrisL

But baby its cold outside.

It is even cold here in ol' Virginny.

ChrisL

Chris did you get the snow thats showing up at Manhattan tonight?

My spine is fine. But thanks for the concern.

We are supposed to get freezing rain and snow, "wintery mix" as they call it here, tonight at about midnight.

ChrisL

I feel bad for the original poster of this thread who kindly asked for alternatives and companions for Mrs. Eaves. I'm not opposed to friendly banter, but perhaps it deserves its own playground.

How about Jenson?
I'm a serif nut.

Nick's original suggestion of Sebastian is nice, or John Sans. (Both from Storm.)

If you're interested in staying with the same designer, tarzana works pretty well with Mrs Eaves, it's a bit quirky though (beware the uppercase E). Interstate is also a good companion as well.

There is an opentype version of Mrs Eaves. Were any changes made to rectify the spacing problems that Hrant has mentioned? Or did they simply combine the various sub-packages [smart ligs etc] into one font?

Hrant, talking of Baskerville's, Raph mentioned in the`Time for a website for free font development?' thread that you are developing a Baskerville revival [Baskerville TMF] for TUG. Can you tell us more?

I've heard plenty of less controversial folks complain about the spacing in Mrs. Eaves - this is not a Hrant-driven issue.

It's almost cold here in Seattle. Lately I keep on having to think about whether or not to put the top up on the convertible. (Usual rule: put it up if there's precipitation and/or it's below freezing. But occasionally I wimp out at slightly warmer temperatures.)

T

I have to second Stephen's FF Atma suggestion... Atma is really a beauty if you're ready to move on from Mrs Eaves delicateness. Give Mrs Eaves a few years, it will come back into favor. (Similar to how Meta is looking fresh to me after all these years of seeming like a 90s* font).

And Tarzana... the E is the reason to go for Tarzana!

* A great 90s font.

Thomas thats a mean comment when I'm trugging through 5+ inches of snow. At least I don't have to drive a car - EVER.

I love Tarzana but I don't think it would work well with Mrs Eaves. It has a very small x height and is either condensed or extended. Not very flexible.

I'm with Nick and Tiffany on this one. Sebastian or John Sans. Besides, StormType is nothing but quality.

"I feel bad for the original poster of this thread who kindly asked for alternatives and companions for Mrs. Eaves. I’m not opposed to friendly bante..."

Sorry Coral, I appologize for my interuptions.

ChrisL

Sorry to go slightly off tangent also, but whilst I saw the subject raised, I thought I'd ask a question to those in the know...

I've always had a liking for Mrs. Eaves, but I find it really difficult to use, the caps seem oversize compared to the l/c characters; this has put me off using it - if this isn't sounding stupid already, then this will - is there a good way to set Mrs. Eaves? Should I try to kern in to compensate, I can't seem to get it looking right!

I really admire the character of the face, it's got lots of personality, it just bugs me somehow whenever I try to use it, I can't quite put my finger on the problem.

I would have thought the best companion for Mrs Eaves would be Mr Eaves?

Ah. There never was a Mr. Eaves, was there? Wasn't it always Mr. Baskerville? ;^)

There was a Mr Eaves, when he heard about Mrs Eaves and Mr Baskerville there was an Akzidenz Grotesque...

I once used Franklin Gothic Heavy with New Baskerville for a commission of over 200 designs for a Marketplace. I'm not sure it would be quite the same with Mrs. Eaves though...Unfortunately I can't think of any snide remarks or of a way to fluff my shriveled ego so I’ll leave it at that.

“Hey, Keep San Antonio Lame!”

There never was a Mr. Eaves, was there?

No, there was. It was only after his death that Baskerville and Mrs. Eaves married.

> Were any changes made to rectify the spacing problems that Hrant has mentioned?

No. A good reason for that would be that customers would have hated the resultant reflow of any old documents. A bad reason would be hubris.

Grant, TUG's Baskerville will be: freely available; freely modifiable (with some provisions concerning "officialness"); and a mix of convention in the Roman and innovation (blasphemy?) in the Italic (but don't fear, it's not a slanted-roman or anything).

Thomas, last year I left the top of my convertible (the one I had before this one - remind me to tell you the story of how the previous one died) open day-and-night (no garage) for 13 weeks straight. And when you turn on the heater, isn't the feeling of hot air rising and dissipating from your feet to your (cold) head just surreal?

> is there a good way to set Mrs. Eaves?

About 18 point, one line at a time, spaced manually.

> I would have thought the best companion for Mrs Eaves would be Mr Eaves?

You mean Richard? The bastard jumped ship.
But Mr Richard would still be a great name for a font.

Tiff, Sarah was still married when she started living with JB.
But probably because divorce law in the UK back then was nasty.
On the other hand, I'm all for discouraging divorce to some
extent: it makes marriage more serious. Anyway, as you were.

hhp

what are some crazy Mrs Eaves combos? For example, what do you think of Mrs Eaves/Farao?

"There was a Mr Eaves, when he heard about Mrs Eaves and Mr Baskerville there was an Akzidenz Grotesque…"

You must have been Eaves dropping on their affair :-)

ChrisL

Chris, for a specimen of your new faces, a collection of your Typophile puns would be good copy. LOL.

A couple of printed pieces culled from the internet: Armin's booklet of Speak Up gems, and a FontFont specimen for an Erik Spiekermann face (sorry, I forget which).

Thanks Nick :-)

ChrisL