Interesting, I'm not sure it works, on first read I saw MWILO. Leaving that aside, the L seems too narrow; the O looks out of place, maybe you could try using a break like the A or B; the S needs some work, it appears to be tilting to the left. Does the M need that upright, because I think that is contributing to the MW reading problem. I think you can make it work but it will take a creative solution.
Tim

Thanks for the reply Timd,

Yeah I noticed the tilt of the S after posting the image, that is definately something that I need to fix. I don't quite like the S to be honest I think I still need to work on the overall shape. As for the MM/MW thing, It's something that has been worrying me for a bit and I'm caught as a cross-roads as to how to deal with it. The original reason why I put in the upright stem on the M was to make sure it wasn't confused for a W once it was flipped, but I suppose that could have proved detrimental.

I'll put up some more variations as soon as I'm able. In the meantime any other comments are appreciated.

-mmilo

The stacked m's also throw off the balance of the design, making it very left-heavy; when I squint I just see a big blob on the left end. Seems to me to pull this off the lettering would need to be quite light (thin) to provide more white space to loosen things up and thereby lessen the weight of those interlocing m's.

Ok, I have made a few variations on the logo, I implemented Tim's idea of removing the upright stem from the M and also following Jason's suggestion made the letters thinner to increase negative space. For now I am only working on the MMILO part because that seems to be the area that requires the most attention.

I am also toying with the idea of small embellishments to suggest the idea of rotation. See what you think of these: http://www.mmilolabs.com/imgs/mmilo.gif

-mmilo

I think the changes you've made so far are a vast improvement. However, I'm afraid this will still be read as "mwilo" AT BEST (because even that gets a bit lost), let alone "mmilo". I wish I could offer a suggestion to fix that, but alas, an upside down m is a w... no changing that!
Plus, the arrows you've added seem to indicate moving backwards... probably not the message you want to send.

Yea, Some may still read 'mwilo' or even 'mwlo'.. You could try to create a nice, matching 'mm' ligature.. ( Maybe something like the IMILLE logotype.? )

Dav, formlos

It is getting better. I think you will continue to improve it if you keep going. What if instead of mirroing each other with the m's you let one drop down below baseline & aligned it with the one above in some interesting way?

Sorry I looked at the revised versions only for the first time and I'm a designer not a layman and I saw it as m wilo. Its a cute idea but its just that, cute. It will never read the way you intended. This is especially true with a non-design audience. Go back to your paper and pencil and come up with a logo that is strong and reads.

I agree that flipping the 'm' will never work as anything but a 'w'.

I definately am starting to get the hint :) It's not a workable solution for the name the logo is trying to convey. The thing is that I wanted to avoid going down the obvious route of the mm ligature as used in the immile logo. But I still have a few ideas locked away in the vault. As soon as the bulk of my exams are over I will post up more samples.

Thanks for all the feedback thusfar, it's greatly appreciated.

-mmilo

How about overlaying two "M"s as if with a drop shadow, only make them different enough that it can be recognized as two separate letters (different color/fill, variations on font, etc.)

Ok well, here's two quick new ones, http://www.mmilolabs.com/imgs/mmilo2.gif

I can't say I'm in love with either of them but there might be something there. I'm starting to feel that the font might not be the best, I'll try making something more condensed hopefully that will take some of the weight out of the M's.

-mmilo

You know looking at those I started to wonder two things - why not just type it out

mmilo

I mean, eventally somebody has to type that to see your web site anyway so...

And then I thought. What does all this fancyness mean anyway? What do you do? I haven't asked. I mean maybe something convoluted is right but without knowing what the logo is meant to mean/say to somebody it's a little silly to crit on the basis of 'oh thats clever' or 'it doesn't read' alone.

Good Point. MMILO is an abbreviation of my full name. As for the kind of work I intend to put up on the site, it's pretty varied. I'm mainly interested in web design and vector based illustration, but I dabble in Flash programming, typography, conceptual illustration and digital painting. That's why there is a "labs" suffixed on to the name because the site is mainly about me experimenting with different ideas.

The website has three goals:
1. Outlet for general experimentation
2. Showcasing some work
3. Putting up a portfolio so I can hopefully find some sort of employment after my degree is completed.

I'm sorry I was vague about what I was trying to accomplish, but I hope I have given enough of a back story now for people to get a better idea of what the concept behind the logo is.

-mmilo

On the new ones the second reads nilo. You might try a transparency effect where the m's are just tints of color and overlapping create another color like blue and yellow creating green. It could work for a web application.

i think the first idea with the two m's is good, but the implmentation needs some work. The name «mmilo:labs» has so much signifcance to it, it shouldn't be tampered with. I would have left the name quite straight, and instead treat the «folded» m's as a separate logo. it has many nice connotations: folded hands, intertwining, holdding hands etc. as it is now, the logo collapses under the wheight of too many good ideas. how necessary is the ':'? (don't know what ':' is called in english) this kind of punctuation is, to me, a bit outdated.

i think the double m's can be chg with a simple math'
and the m will be in square like mª( and it got some
reference to the lab.

I see. So you did have a reason!

I do wonder if the simple mmilo isn't cool enough. It isn't very experimental looking but since your work will be maybe thats a good contrast.

On the other hand 'milo labs' sounds cool too. Also you could have mmmmmmilo. Which would be playful. But it would make the URL for the site tough.

Apologies for my absence, it's been a busy coupla weeks. I've had a bit of time to try a few things out and I thought I'd put this up and see what you think. It's radically different from the previous stuff, but I'm liking the way it punches out. See what you guys think.

I want to add a small icon, perhaps some cogs or beaker or something laboratory like, I'll post some more examples a little later on.

-mmilo

Well, it has a much different personality, but it's much more straightforward.

I admit, I miss the letterforms you were using in the first one. They were more memorable. You've lost the experimental feel that made a conceptual link to 'labs'. However, it all depends on your needs and the image you're pushing. I think an icon will make this direction more memorable.

The old direction was more playful but also more serious feeling in that it was tapping into reductive modernism. The new direction does pop but I think it relies on color too much. Whatever you make I want to encourage you to make sure it works in B&W first and then think about color. I think this one feels like SF, CA in the the early 90's just because I associate the face with that time. BTW - what about just scanning a ballpoint pen or pencil sketch? Or some other one-off method. Whipped cream?

Doing something like that would reflect an experimental nature more than a formal logo.

The new version is straignt forward and says clear communication to me. Its not arty but I think thats a good point, designers need to decide weither they are artists (like painters) or communicators. With a conserative logo you take emphsis off the logo and focus the content on the information at your web site.

But I think that maybe he does want to be arty & experimental. With an emphasis on process rather than 'information'. But I could be wrong.

Mateja?

You guys are both right to a degree, I like Dan's thoughts about the logo communicating a clear message but Eben is 100% correct that the message is supposed to be arty & experimental.

Herein lies the problem, I'm trying to create a logo that conveys form over function and yet still remains functional. As much as I liked the interlocking M's there's not much point when noone will understand what the logo is sayng. That's why I'm trying out different avenues to find what will strike the best balance.

If you guys have any thoughts, or can think of any logos that fit in with what I'm trying to accomplish let me know :)

Again thanks for the keen interest guys, I will most definately keep working on this, I'm having a blast doing this with your help.

-mmilo

Since a lot of you seem to like the the way the previous logo looked, I've made a few variations of it. I got inspired by the old Warner Bros logo. I can't say I'm thrilled with the way they look but they're not hideous either.

http://www.mmilolabs.com/imgs/mmilo4.gif

-mmilo

Those are pretty cool. I don't think they quite read but maybe they read enough.

I like the 2nd one best. There is something wonky about that s. It might need tweaking.

Yeah there's plenty wonky about that S. I made it from scratch and S's in general are a pain in the posterior for me to make. I'll keep tweaking it thought to see if I can fix it up, but tell me what do you think of those as compared to the little red and black number?

I'm glad you brought back the initial look. I think they're more interesting than the red&black, which seems to have less personality (though I don't know you, so who's to say the other isn't more 'you'?).

The number of 'legs' is disorienting. My eye has a hard time resolving them into anything, and as a result I read them as ornamentation of a sort, like a visual foil for the 'i' so I read it as 'ilo:labs' now.

I prefer the second one because you have more forms to work with. I'd suggest making each 'm' distinct and using that first leg with the sharp corner twice, once for each 'm'. Also, the light grey might be a bit too light, depending on how much control you have over its use.

Mateja, this has come a long way. I'm really enjoying how abstract it has become. Mind you, it isn't readable, but the direction is much stronger.

The middle version of the latest upload. What if you used the first stroke on the m again on the last? Would that help imply the lettershape more? Would it help separate the m from the i?

I agree with Chris, if you could sort out the m so it is still abstract enough to please yourself but legibable enough to read as an m, I think you would have a really nice logo!
That & fix that s! I am looking foreward to the next iteration. BTW - maybe you should work in just b/w and leave the grey & color to later on.

What if gave the m a sort of Lead-in on the left side, almost like a serif in the text m. Or you could take your 'a' make a copy, flip it horizontally & have a kind of ram's head m that uses the roundness of the other letters again. Actually I made some m's just for fun. If you want I will post them for you. Really there are a ton of creative ways to make your m.

Eben I liked your ram's head idea so much that I got a little carried away with it. Here's a little something whacky i knocked up just for a bit of fun. See if you guys like it :)

-mmilo

I think the verticals at the start of the logo are distracting, you could make a ligature of the mm (possibly sharing the last and first vertical of each m). The ram's heads are an interesting approach although it is probably too far round, the il ligature, for example, the dot of the i is not centred on the vertical. That s is looking good I wonder if a sharper change of direction at the top might be necessary, I don't see the point of not having the same terminal on the l of labs as most of the other characters. Definitely worth persisting with this look.
Tim

Well since you liked it so much timd I worked on it a little more as per your suggestions, et voila....

Let's see what the reast of the guys and gals think. :)

-mmilo

I think that this is heading in a good direction....the readability is definitely improving and I like the il lig you have going!

I am still not satisfied with the m and I think you have too much sugar in the cake - too many curly things. I like the il bit the l in labs doesn't need that & the b does not either.

Did you actually try the m I was talking about? I'll show you mine if you want. The m you have is good too but it doesn't read as two 'm's. Just as a wild m with one too many bumps. But maybe reading the logo it isn't as important to you as it would be to me...

It is getting better & better.

Ok here are a bunch of slight variations. I'm actually starting to like the overall look and I'm definately sure that the final design is going to be very close to this, just a matter of fine tunining some of the details. See which one of these tickles your fancy.

http://www.mmilolabs.com/imgs/mmilo7.gif

-mmilo

I like 5 or 6 of the current generation. Try making a dot over the i and make the curved l come to the dot but not connect. I don't like the s in labs it looks like its falling over and is disconnected with all the other vertical characters.

1a is my favourite, I would recommend you have a look at the ram's heads where they join to the vertical, it seems a bit abrupt, especially on the inside of the curve, and lower the colon to centre on the x-height.
Tim

Just quick interjection

If you were to mirror the m's vertically and rotate them 90degree's the reflected m would look less like a w in a serifed face. Just a thought to play with.

-Jac
pronounced by saying 'Jake' without conjuring imagery of lumberjacks or mans best friend.

i like 6a best. it's getting quite good.

i think the ascenders on the l and b might be taller - not a lot but a little.

I'm with Eben Sorkin: 6a or 6b for me. Just the one ligature for the 'il' combo works well and the straight edged corner for the tail of the l/top of the i reads better i.e more like an 'i' and an 'l' rather than an 'i' and a'p'. looking good - you've come a long way!

I still want to show you that silly rams head m I made. You haven't shown it to us in your experiments so far & who knows - you might like it.

Mateja, do you mind if I post it?

sorry for the extended haitus, I have been pretty busy working on a couple of different sites and theres stil a fair bit on my plate at the moment. If anyone would like to take a gander here is a link for a site I just finished that's still sitting on my test bed http://www.mmilolabs.com/gillwillcox/ (maybe some typographical suggestions wouldn't go astray but I should save elaborate discussion for another post)

As for you posting your example here Eben, you don't even need to ask buddy, post away. speaking of the logo, I think most likely I'll end up sticking to 6A. I like the extra flourish on the "m" in the 1-4 series but I feel that it makes the design look a little too "girly" and limits design potential (no offense to the ladies out there :P).

-mmilo

here ya go.