I guess it shouldn’t surprise me, but it was remarkable how many said “price” was a factor in purchasing fonts. The price per font weight doesn’t vary that much between foundries and resellers. $20-$40. I guess we have some more educating to do.

Hmph. One of the things that influences my buying of a font is the extent of a family.
I want small caps; I want italic small caps! If there’s a bold, a want bold small caps and bold italic small caps! All with matching OS figs (in the small caps font, please: why the Roman would contain the os figs and the small caps would contain lining figs is completely beyond me, but coming from a country with letters and numbers combined for postal codes it is a major major pain for typesetting.)

Am I the last designer on earth who uses such things for the sake of consistency? I don’t want these things as extra styles, I need them so that if I’ve decided on the use of small caps in my document I can use them throughout and not be faced with that hideous conundrum of encountering eg. “USA” in an italic section or bold heading and having to decide ... now do i fake it (bad), break editorial style and set in caps (bad) or change the style throughout just to accomodate this incomplete font set (highly undesirable)?

Furthermore, if a serif face has a matching sans, I need it all to match: os figs, scaps etc.

As much as i love and use Eureka & Eureka Sans, the Sans italic has no os figs! What kind of BS is that? I have literally had to change to lining figs throughout a document because of this.

Perhaps I’m too uptight. But the main reason that designers give for buying type being “appropriateness for their message” and, essentially, recognizable, quirky style just makes me roll my eyes, throw my hands up in the air and give up on typography forever.

sorry. got a little ranty.

-marian

Marian, you must know by now that you are a rare breed. Most designers don’t use smallcaps even if it’s right in front of them, even on multi-million-dollar projects. In this age sensationalism has trumped discrimination (and this is coming from a inveterate rule-breaker, not at all a conservative).

hhp

> “appropriateness for their message”

Quite true, Marian. As I said in my own opinion... several comments just sound like “the smart thing to say.”

If you know what you are doing, then just do it. Many graphic designers “talk the talk,” but as we all know few “walk the walk.”

What I take from the survey is that there is still great potential to market typefaces, and almost an obligation to show designers how to use type, both traditionaly as well as innovatively. It’s like they are all waiting for another Herb Lubalin or U&lc to be awed by type again.

————————————————————-
Y, I’mO, BI’mBIS!

Amen, Marian!! I am right there with you. Here’s to type designers making things complete.

It’s like they are all waiting for another Herb Lubalin or U&lc to be awed by type again.

That’s a wonderful notion, and I hope it’s true, but I don’t know if they are willing to buy enough type to pay for it. Gotta sell quite a few $40 units to warrant production, printing, and mailing a mag of U&lc’s quality.

» Gotta sell quite a few $40 units to warrant production, printing, and mailing a mag of U&lc’s quality

It’s true that printing and paper costs are higher now, but if you recall for the first year or two of publication U&lc was printed on low grade newsprint with black ink only. The “quality” of U&lc was in its layouts and content, plus a bullpen of some of the best designers of that time.

Also, Aaron Burns initially focused on creating a mailing base of only type specifiers (built from mailing lists from PLINC, other type houses and subscription list from Graphic Design USA) and colleges with art programs. The ratio of type buyers to readership was extremely high. Eventually U&lc sold ad space as well.

Developing a direct mail piece in magazine-like format by a foundry or font distributor would be quite costly today. A better approach would be to consider it a true publication, maybe quarterly. The production and printing cost, like any other magazine, would be paid in part by the advertisers, subscribers (if you are charging a fee) and direct purchase (instead of “newsstand” sales, it would be single issues ordered via internet, like étapes:international).

All in all, it would still be major undertaking.
Hmmmm... guess we need to come up with another schema. ;-)

Norbert, that’s sort of what Linotype is trying to kick off with the Linotype Matrix.

True, Dan. Linotype Matrix seems to have the makings of a good trypographic periodical.

There are inherent pitfalls in creating a U&lc clone by a single foundry, large or small. For one thing, there is a certain bias to content and a danger of seeming too much “advertorial” than editorial.

In 1990, Agfa launched a large format type magazine called 26 which lasted a short while since by corporate standards sales did not offset or justify the cost of publication. The attempt was valiant but no one seems to recall the existence of 26.

If a company measures “success” of a publication strictly against the sale of fonts and within the advertising budget, then it is doomed to fail.

If a company measures “success” of a publication strictly against the sale of fonts and within the advertising budget, then it is doomed to fail.

Yes, I think that this is impossible to measure.

Case in point - check out the font choice here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4382602.stm

People, smallcaps are about an Astronomical Unit away from proper use.

hhp

I love seeing some data. I wish I could find more. Anyone have any data they want to share?

I would suggest to type designers and foundries that they send more mailers, promotions and reminders

This was a point I was trying to make in this previous thread: http://typophile.com/node/15647 It somehow got glossed over or misinterpreted.

I agree with Norbert, I think for there to be a truly comprehensive type publication it needs to be done by a third party that is not a type foundry. How many of us would be willing to read a political news magazine for accurate information if it was published solely by the G.O.P.?

> How many of us would be willing to read a political news magazine
> for accurate information if it was published solely by the G.O.P.?

About half? :-/

But I agree, it would be best to have it third-party. The problem, of course, is $.

hhp

“How many of us would be willing to read a political news magazine for accurate information if it was published solely by the G.O.P.?”

You mean Fox News? :-)

ChrisL

If there’s a bold, a want bold small caps and bold italic small caps!

is there really a need for bold italic small caps? really?

“is there really a need for bold italic small caps? really?”

I used Hoefler Texts black italic swash small-caps on a poster recently, and was very happy to have the option.

(but I admit I could probably have lived with it.)

Ed.

I think Font Bureau has it right. Super Families entice those who license type into thinking we need all the options. I’ve been known to license entire families even though I only need a few weights just so I can have the options.