Does this link work for you guys?

Not working for me either by clicking to launch or right clicking and 'save target as...'.

Can we not post PDFs?

Works just fine for me

Kyle it is very nice. How will the branding be used TV? Print? Website? What kind of company is it?

A excerpt from our concept presentation:

... This concept is an intriguing play on the acronym WCC. This is the boldest statement of the four (concepts), immediately evoking the Bauhaus aesthetic quite often associated with large corporations. Primary messaging is sophisticated and strong, establishing sound business practice above all else. The rounded corners on the bounding box help soften the impact slightly, and provide an ergonomic, humanistic quality that eases user interaction. The emphasis on the ‘W’ evokes/reinforces ‘winning.’ ...

WCC is a sports forecasting/handicapping company. The two founding officers are sports experts. They appear regularly on ESPN, as commentators and sports (mailing western coast college conference) forecasters.

One of the major brand touch points will actually be athletic wear, and mid range apparel -- think nice trendy polos, not t-shirts. There is going to be a big guerilla marketing push with the apparel. We are taking some rather un-conventional approaches to marketing within a market that is quite staunch and sterile. The majority of the competitors are quite 'old fashioned' and extremely unimaginative.

A major criterion for success was the ability to become a quazi-fashion label. Something people would enjoy wearing. A mark that would be able to facilitate a trend, yet remain timeless.

The applications will be fairly broad. One of the most interesting touch points is the apparel. One of the more difficult touch points is the radio.

Dan,

Thanks. I find myself quite happy with the solution.

I think the WCC mark alone will work on clothing, although I would perceive it more as a mark for a heavy plant manufacturer, not that I don't like the type (Klavika – I think) more that the company title would need explanation whenever somebody asks what a capper is.
Tim

Tim,

"I think the WCC mark alone will work on clothing"

That was the idea, to be able to take the symbol and use it by itself.
As far as knowing what a 'capper' is, well, those that use the services will know. Capper is a very common term for a person who does handicapping. It does have a bit of an industrial feel, which was intentional considering the target market is 99% male and riddled with testosterone.

Tim,

"I think the WCC mark alone will work on clothing"

That was the idea, to be able to take the symbol and use it by itself.
As far as knowing what a 'capper' is, well, those that use the services will know. Capper is a very common term for a person who does handicapping. It does have a bit of an industrial feel, which was intentional considering the target market is 99% male and riddled with testosterone.

Kyle, its just to bad you have to work with the gambling industry. There are so many sick people out there who will give their money away gambling, especially now its Football season in the US. Don't take me wrong, its a strong mark and it fits the strageic goals, but in a perfect world…

Dan,

Very true, and it is something we gave strong consideration. Glaser's twelve steps to hell come to mind. This was probably about as close to hell (forgive the metaphor) that we would go. On the positive side, they are very conscious of people with addictions, and wont work with people they feel have the sickness, or people they feel are operating out of their means. It really came down to them making us comfortable with their responsibility in the matter. If this were any other company, I don’t think we would have undertaken the project.

Not a lot of feedback, huh? :(

Kyle,

I like the mark a lot. It has a very modern/industrial look (I love Klavika). With the use of a stencil, I can imagine it being stamped on cars, posters, business cards, etc. But I can't say how suitable it is since I don't know anything about the industry, or what kind of image their competitors have.

The only thing that bothers me is the name, and you had nothing to do with that. When I hear it, I think of the West Coast Choppers... and now that I know what 'cappers are, I get this image in my head that they're a tough gang that collect gambling debts, and if the clients don't have the money, they'll "handicap" them by breaking some bones. :)

I just got it! The rounded/stenciled border around the heavy W is two C's! That's really cool! I don't know why I didn't notice it before, I guess I was thinking about stencils. But once you notice it you can't stop seeing it. Just like the FedEx arrow.

Anti --

Thats funny you mention the FedEx arrow. We actually used that example in our presentation. The West Coast Choppers was something that we actually considered 'borrowing equity' from, so it was definately a consideration in the effort.

BTW, thanks for the feedback.

But you'll only see the arrow if you're a graphic designer.
Ergo: it's too subtle.

http://www.manic.com.sg/blog/archives/000232.php

hhp

The question should be: Is it important to be obvious?

Was it important that the arrow is visible in the FedEx design? NO.

Does it add value? YES. Granted it is more subliminal, but to do you deny the value of subliminal communication in design?

In the case of WCC, the CC were not important in the symbol. In fact, we wanted to emphasize the W, and communicate the subliminal concept of winning.

If we were attempting to create a monogram based upon the acronym, then you would be right, this would be too subtle.

Why bother putting it in, if you're going to make it so subtle as to escape the notice of people who matter? Yes, there is a reason: good ol' graphic designer navel gazing. Insular professional bravado.

But your logo is actually not like that at all. The two "C"s are quite literal and effective. And they're a "positive" part of the design, not some inside joke thrown in for the purpose of mental masturbation.

hhp

Hrant,

Do you feel that there is no merit to subliminal communication?

Kyle, you would have to define who would benefit from a subliminal communication in order to discover if there is any merit involved. My opinion is, if I believed that subliminal communication could be achieved in the atmosphere of cynicism and awareness which exists among audiences, that subliminal communication is a further step down to hell.
I question that your mark qualifies as a genuine subliminal communique, I don't really see the winning concept (which I suppose is to be expected if it were subliminal, but I would have expected to be able to discern some hint of design shorthand to indicate its presence).
Tim

I'm a big fan of the subliminal (or subvisible).
But I don't think people who put hidden arrows are really taking that seriously.

hhp

There are many levels of awareness and not all are achieved instantaneously. The Eureka effect of seeing the arrow at some time much later can renew the learning process for the reader and add another level of meaning. Time is a dimension as well as space. Retention can be aided by using multilevel communication.

ChrisL

Good point.
On the other hand, ID systems are changed all the time,
and the arrow might be gone before enough people see it!

My main point is, if you have a good idea like that, why not make it (gently) more explicit, and gain the positive effects immediately? I think there's only one reason on the ground: it goes against the current graphic design culture of appearing sophisticated to other graphic designers (which sucks). In contrast, below is a logo that I saw last weekend; it put a smile on my face, and made a strong impression in my mind, even though I'm "aware" of graphic design (but I'm not jaded by it).

http://themicrofoundry.com/other/ufish.jpg

Sure, I'd definitely get rid of the waves, and possibly the splash drops too, but essentially I believe it's the type of thing that works, no matter how much most graphic designers in black turtlenecks would snort at it.

hhp

"I question that your mark qualifies as a genuine subliminal communique...

I should have clarified. I am not suggesting that my mark contained subliminal design. I was more interested in exploring the topic, not necessarily as it related to my efforts with this, but more in general.

----

Hrant, How exactly do you become jaded by design?

"...gain the positive effects immediately?"

You can not gain a delayed reaction effect immediately by definition. This is what I meant by the dimension of time. The point of it is that you have one reaction at your first viewing and yet another reaction at some later viewing. This one, two punch acts synergistically to aid retention. It also can prompt discussion between viewers who otherwise would just have gone by after the first viewing. There is a lot of work involved in getting it right. It has nothing to do with art--it is by design.

ChrisL

Kyle: I think "jaded" in this case might describe somebody more concerned with reveling in his profession than serving the user.

Chris: Agreed. But I don't think laymen ever get that second reaction in the case of the FedEx logo - unless maybe if they a graphic designer as a close friend. I'm not saying the arrow should have a neon sign delineating it; but it should have been made to become visible to the layman eventually. Art vs Craft: if a graphic designer is more concerned with expressing his self/talents/skills, he becomes closer to Art than Craft.

hhp

The subtlety of the FedEx arrow has a deliberate purpose: If it were more obvious, you'd see a big arrow on the left side of trucks and planes pointing backwards.

Does the subtlety of this CC have a purpose? If it does not, I probably would have picked a different W closer in style to the C's. Still emphasized, yes, but with just enough of the rounded-square aesthetic in it that the C's are recognized as potential letterforms.

> pointing backwards

But it's OK that people only realize this subliminally and/or later on? So maybe they should have just left it out? They certainly had to violate some rules of good letterform design to pull it off.

hhp

Well, I can't say it's the solution I would have chosen, but when I look at a FedEx truck, even knowing the arrow is there, the near-invisibility of it divorces it from the wider context. I see "letters and arrow" on one level of focus, and "truck and letters" on another, but I don't see "truck and arrow" as a relationship the way I might otherwise. It's like the difference between a big map painted on the floor and a paper map opened in front of me on the table. In the first case, it would bother me if north were not truly pointed north; in the other case, it would not, because there is no strongly implied relationship to its surroundings as context.