I understand the interim bit, but am confused about the main question.

Tiffany and anyone else I’ve confused,
What I am after are fonts that are already reversed out like this (but more usable fonts than replicating Dymo tape).
Apologies for the confusion.
Tim

Ah. Ok. So what app are you using? Seems to me that you should be able to create a stylesheet for this.

What software are you using? You can achieve this in Quark using Rules - above and below, thick enough so that they meet.

I have looked at rules as an option but the text occurs in the middle of paragraphs which spoils that as an option, unless there is some way of only picking certain words from a paragraph, I could create black boxes behind on a baseline grid but I really need something that will flow on if more corrections are made it might be a case of using Fontographer (I don’t believe there would be a EULA concern or would there?
Tim

Why is text in the middle of a paragraph a problem? If you create a character style sheet it should still work.

And would be far simpler in terms of text that needs to be edited than placing boxes behind the text.

I don’t know if that is possible, I looked at applying rules in style sheets and it seems to be restricted to paragraphs not characters.
Tim

If you use Quark v.4 or later you can do character style sheets.

Are you working in QuarkXPress or Adobe InDesign? Because there is a trick in Indy which allows you to have a colour bar run over text on word or even character level. Easy as pie.

I am working with Quark Xpress, and I am aware of character style sheets, but they do not allow rules to be applied, that option is only available in paragraph style sheets. I was initially asking if any reversed out faces existed that I could use. I appreciate your efforts but I have exhausted the option of using the software and will attempt the Fontographer option.
Tim

Many EULAs do not permit the modification of fonts, even for private use. Adobe’s will allow you to do that, many other foundries’ do not.

Even this sort of thing would be a violation of an EULA’s “no editing” clause. So maybe you should pick you fonts based on their EULAs here.

I’m sorry to sound so picky here.

To be even more picky, I could suggest that you switch over to InDesign ;-)

__
www.typeoff.de

Actually the fontographer option didn’t work well enough (not without an inordinate amount of extra work), but I have an inelegant workround in Quark that might do the trick. After Yves’ suggestion I also visted InDesign and worked out how to that as a character style. However it would have been far simpler to use a font like Helvetica Bold Reversed, which was apparently only available for Linotron 202 according to the 1988 LinoType Collection.
Tim

Back in the days of the Linotron 202, it was nearly impossible to reverse out type easily. With the advent of PostScript this is much easier to do. Hence the reason for the lack of reversed-out fonts from major foundries—there just isn’t an industry demand for them.

The only old technology work-around font that I am readily aware of is Neue Helvetica 75 Bold Outline. But who needs that is this day and age… just about every DTP app can display an outlined version of the font.

I’m glad tht you found a work-around in Quark.
__
www.typeoff.de

Many EULAs do not permit the modification of fonts, even for private use.

Is that even enforceable?

> maybe you should pick you fonts based on their EULAs here.

Or maybe you should ignore preposterous clauses in EULAs.

hhp

Yes, that was my feeling too

>> Many EULAs do not permit the modification of
>> fonts, even for private use.

> Is that even enforceable?

In some countries, such an EULA clause is valid (most likely the U.S.) while in others (many E.U. countries) such clause is either invalid or only valid under certain limitations defined by the copyright laws. For example, the German and Polish copyright laws allow fonts to be converted of modified “to achieve interoperability with other software programs”.

Regards,
Adam

Ps. For German speakers, here the relevant portion of the German copyright law:

Urheberrechtsgesetz

§ 69c. Zustimmungsbedürftige Handlungen. Der Rechtsinhaber hat das ausschließliche Recht, folgende Handlungen vorzunehmen oder zu gestatten: (…) 2. die Übersetzung, die Bearbeitung, das Arrangement und andere Umarbeitungen eines Computerprogramms sowie die Vervielfältigung der erzielten Ergebnisse. Die Rechte derjenigen, die das Programm bearbeiten, bleiben unberührt; (…)

§ 69d. Ausnahmen von den zustimmungsbedürftigen Handlungen. (1) Soweit keine besonderen vertraglichen Bestimmungen vorliegen, bedürfen die in § 69c Nr. 1 und 2 genannten Handlungen nicht der Zustimmung des Rechtsinhabers, wenn sie für eine bestimmungsgemäße Benutzung des Computerprogramms einschließlich der Fehlerberichtigung durch jeden zur Verwendung eines Vervielfältigungsstücks des Programms Berechtigten notwendig sind. (…)

§ 69e. Dekompilierung. (1) Die Zustimmung des Rechtsinhabers ist nicht erforderlich, wenn die Vervielfältigung des Codes oder die Übersetzung der Codeform im Sinne des § 69c Nr. 1 und 2 unerläßlich ist, um die erforderlichen Informationen zur Herstellung der Interoperabilität eines unabhängig geschaffenen Computerprogramms mit anderen Programmen zu erhalten, sofern folgende Bedingungen erfüllt sind: 1. Die Handlungen werden von dem Lizenznehmer oder von einer anderen zur Verwendung eines Vervielfältigungsstücks des Programms berechtigten Person oder in deren Namen von einer hierzu ermächtigten Person vorgenommen; 2. die für die Herstellung der Interoperabilität notwendigen Informationen sind für die in Nummer 1 genannten Personen noch nicht ohne weiteres zugänglich gemacht; 3. die Handlungen beschränken sich auf die Teile des ursprünglichen Programms, die zur Herstellung der Interoperabilität notwendig sind. (…) (3) Die Absätze 1 und 2 sind so auszulegen, daß ihre Anwendung weder die normale Auswertung des Werkes beeinträchtigt noch die berechtigten Interessen des Rechtsinhabers unzumutbar verletzt.

what’s the character style trick for indesign?

reversing out body text usually doesn’t look good. thin parts wash out. i thought this was going to be about tweaked versions that were a little thicker here and there!

There is an option to do character underline that you can modify to move up to the ascender and create an overprint effect so it is possible to have a colour bar over black type, I am not a regular InDesign user so Yves might have another trick up his sleeve. Adam, thank you for your response, unfortunately I don’t read much German, I didn’t see a problem in my altering a paid for font since I didn’t intend to pass it on or sell it.
Tim

Reading your original question, I have to ask why you don’t just use something like underlining (for additions) or strikeout (for deletions) to mark the changed areas? Wouldn’t that be a lot easier?

Elliot,
You are right it would be simpler. Unfortunately the strikethrough and underline options are a bit heavy, I have used the Typetricks extension to create a lighter weight stroke as an option but the client is not keen on the appearance.
Tim

Unfortunately the strikethrough and underline options are a bit heavy

Can’t be as heavy as reversed out text though?

I’ve come across something similar before and annoyingly it’s one of those things it’s trivial to do in MS Word but not in a professional DTP application…

When a client ‘knows’ what s/he wants, the sensible (and in this case easy) option does not always make sense until you have demonstrated why your suggestion performs best. Thanks for your suggestion though.
Tim