Typophile

Italic version - critiques sought

Steve Gardner0 votes

Hi all,

About four months ago, I asked for some help with a new project. Progress has been slower than I would have liked, but I'm back asking for your thoughts on my initial ideas for the italic version of the same font.

Here's what I have so far.

http://www.typophile.com/node/120859

And, for the purposes of comparison, here's where I'm at with the original project.

http://freepdfhosting.com/91e209e0cb.pdf

The italics share the same core design principles of the original, but are not simply skewed clones. Most letterforms have been redrawn, for example, and the 'pinched' angles are more pronounced.

All feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Sorry, I made a mistake with the links.

Here is the italic version.

http://freepdfhosting.com/68304cf9c4.pdf

A couple of minor changes: slightly wider /m/ and tidied up curves on /c/ and /e/.

http://freepdfhosting.com/64d3995471.pdf

/w/ appears too dark.
/k/ could be wider, with a larger counter.
What is the target size? The spacing is too loose overall, unless this is for tiny point sizes.

I'll take a look at the /w/ and /k/ a little later.

Most of my testing has been between 9pt and 14pt. I haven't fine-tuned bearings on the italics yet, because I want to focus on the shapes, but they're generally a little loose because riccard0 mentioned the original font was too tight for comfortable reading.

Do you think the original is too loose now? http://freepdfhosting.com/91e209e0cb.pdf

I haven't addressed the spacing issue, but this update includes revisions to the /w/ and /k/.

http://freepdfhosting.com/4f4ed16785.pdf

Better?

I think the /w/ could still be a touch lighter, but get a second opinion.
I don't think the roman is too loose (though the wordspace may be too wide). Because italic letters are sloped they are narrower, and the counters consequently smaller, so the interlettering space needs to be too. But looking at the small sizes in a printout now, I'd only tighten them a hair--it's pretty close to good. Overall, though loose and stiff when big, I think this works really well at text sizes.
The /p/ seems to me the most daring character. My eye gets hung up on it a bit, but I'm not sure how to advise you to rein it in. Would it be crazy to keep the bowl and the ascending stem but snip off the little bit on the left side?

Would it be crazy to keep the bowl and the ascending stem but snip off the little bit on the left side?

þ!
I would rather shave the top a bit…

Thanks to you both for your constructive feedback, as always.

I've taken some height off of the /p/stem, shaved a little extra weight off the /w/ and made a couple of tiny changes elsewhere. I'll focus on the spacing at a later date.

http://freepdfhosting.com/53f2e6f711.pdf

I'm sure I'll come back and tweak these further in due course but, for now, I'm going to turn my attention to the caps, numerals, etc. In the meantime, if you spot anything else that needs some attention, please let me know.

Thanks again.

/k/'s arm loop should go higher (have a bit more overshoot over the meanline). It looks short next to /c/. Same may be true, to a lesser extent, with /p/'s bowl.

I've raised the /k/ loop and /p/ bowl a touch. I've also edited the curves of the /k/ and /e/ so that they're more in agreement.

http://freepdfhosting.com/0eab96e6c4.pdf

Looks great, I still think the stem on the /p is too tall - also compared to your regular version which sports a more conventional /p

Hi Andreas,

My aim for the italic is to create a sort of half-brother to the roman, if that makes sense. I want them to appear clearly related but, at the same time, clearly different. This is the reason for the alternate style /p/. In fact, only the /v/, /w/, /x/, /y/ and /z/ are simple skewed versions of their roman counterparts. Every other letter has been redrawn.

I shaved a little more off the /p/ stem, mainly to avoid confusion with the /þ/. The first draft of the caps has been added, but no numerals yet.

http://freepdfhosting.com/8c955fc39b.pdf

Makes sense.

/m, /n, /r shares the same stem (same look anyways) and then you chosen a different stem only for /p which makes it stand out still after you've cut it. I'm new to this game so can't really judge if it's "ok" :)

Looking at it again i feel like the middle part of the /s has a too perfect curve compared to the generally more jagged appearance of the rest.

Here's a more conventional treatment for the /p/ for comparison.

http://freepdfhosting.com/fb01030675.pdf

Regarding the /s/, I think it's consistent with the other letters in that the 'jaggedness' occurs at the thinnest parts (top-left & bottom-right) of the curve.

The latest |q| doesn't work for me…

Ooops - I was experimenting with alternative /q/ tails using the overlapping stroke effect I used in the Greek script. I didn't particularly like it either, but I forgot to revert to the previous version when I changed the /p/.

Out of interest, which /p/ works best for you?

I do like some exuberance in italics, but for |p| not to look too much out of place, you probably would need to give your slanted letters more cursive shapes too.

You're right about the s - but on e.g. n it's a bigger % of what's normally curved that becomes "jagged"...I don't know...just looking at most of the other letters I would have expected the s to be less "smooth".

Regarding the /p then the second is better for reading but the first is more interesting (for lack of better word).

I'm unsure about the /z with it's non-straight line, when the lines in /x /v /y /w are more straight and the modifications to the other letters in general is of the "jagged" kind.

Andreas, I've reverted to a more conventional /p/. I've reviewed the /s/ again and again, and remain happy that it is consistent. I take your point about the /z/; I tried straightening it and also making the kink 'harder', but preferred the original. I may return to it again, but my focus has been on creating a set of italic Greek characters.

Here's the latest version, showing pangrams in various languages, each in italic and then roman for comparison.

http://freepdfhosting.com/162b20fa48.pdf

Whilst I've included Latin scripts, I'm most interested in feed back on the Greek at this time.

You'll notice the Greek italic at the top is not simply a skew, but a redraw, with some characters (alpha, beta, theta, kappa, rho and phi) taking completely different forms. Firstly, any issues with the way the characters are drawn? Secondly, are these different letterforms a bit too 'different' to be standard?

As always, all thoughts on any aspect is most welcome.

Edit to add: please ignore spacing; I'm focussing primarily on the shapes.

I didn't like my first attempt at a script-like /theta/, so I've redrawn it. Here's a text block set in Greek italic. I haven't italicised all the caps yet, so ignore the odd roman form you might see.

http://freepdfhosting.com/694c3e7fe1.pdf

The first draft of the cyrillic italic script is ready. The roman font is also shown for comparison.

http://freepdfhosting.com/89aa7ae5a4.pdf

Again, I've only spent as much time on spacing as was necessary to generate a readable passage of text. There is a great deal of refinement to be done. My main concern right now, however, is with the letterforms themselves and I'd really appreciate any thoughts about how to improve them.

Thanks in advance.

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