Unlike you, I am not perfect. If you think I made a mistake, point it out, and support my claims. Just because you claim my message is full of untruths does not make it so.

I am not a troll. But it is pretty clear you are an a$ hole. And a childish one, at that.

Your reply was nothing but a flame, the kind of flame trolls engender. Perhaps you were just projecting when you called me a troll. It usually takes one to know one.

Calling other people names is childish.

Claiming the words of another person are untrue without specifying what words you referred to, why you believe the words to be untrue, or not providing any support for your position is not constructive. Your reply was nothing more than schoolyard insults bullies live for.

"You are a troll." "Your message was pathetic." Etc., etc. Really? Is that the best you can do?

Don't you have anything better to do with your time? Why don't you grow up?

The "Ultimate Font Download. 10,000 fonts for $20

Is this legit? | Typophile
www.typophile.com › Forums › Release
Dec 4, 2008 - I saw the Ultimate Font Download, 10,000 commercial-licensed free fonts for ..... Yeah 10,000 fonts for $20, isn't really a bad deal in my opinion, ...
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And here is the URL of the site I was referred to: http://www.ultimatefontdownload.com/

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So, I don't know if this site is part of the scam or not. All I know is paid $20, and got nothing for my money. I could not get in touch with anyone at the site. If you do a Google search, you will find "The Ultimate Font Download" site promoted on this site quite often.

I am happy to support any claim I made you believe to be untrue.
If there are holes in my first message, I can fill them in if anyone
wishes to make a courteous request. On the other hand, I don't
think you can do anything to correct the holes in your head.

It appears George Thomas was a US Army Officer. He died March 28, 1870.
So it appears, you are also an impostor.

Deja vu

Please send me the $1000 to continue this conversation.

hhp

Cyberflor, I don't think you're trolling. Ray Larabie and James Arboghast did recommend the Ultimate Font Download site in the Is this legit? thread. I don't know a lot about free fonts, but I doubt you'll find knock-offs, or at least legal knockoffs of approximately the same completeness and quality as the original, of the typefaces you want. Making a good knockoff legally would require too much work and offer too little glory for people to do it for free, and doing it commercially probably wouldn't pay now either since knockoffs have a bad reputation with designers and good type can be had relatively cheaply.

Until you can evaluate type confidently for things like spacing issues, you might want to avoid free fonts and knockoffs at least for use in extended text. A copy of The Elements of Typographic Style could be a good investment, if you've not yet read it, since it'll help you use more effectively what you already have - including Constantia, which was designed from scratch by John Hudson, who is on this forum.

I once bought this pack, as it offered some Larabie fonts I could use, and was worth it just for that. I had no problems with the download, have you tried to contact people via email?

I was encouraged by the thread mentioned, but the package does contain a lot of rather poor fonts I will never use. But then again, what do you expect for 20 bucks?? You get what you pay for most of the time!

> I am a proficient technical writer...
> I think I could earn money working in desktop publishing.

These are very different professions. If you are already a good writer, I'd suggest concentrating on that rather than learning desktop publishing, which is a complex skill to learn. (Unless you mean just creating simple documents like resumes. And you don't need InDesign for those, Word will work just fine.)

Many (but certainly not all) copywriter jobs are "clean up" jobs, where you're given rough copy written by a client and you must polish it. It requires a good knowledge of grammar, good organizational skills to keep track of revisions and deadlines, good proofreading skills, and good people skills so your clients enjoy working with you and send you more jobs.

> I would like to learn Adobe In-Design.

Be aware that InDesign is a very complex program and many of the settings require a good knowledge of typography. It's a difficult program to learn.

> purchasing an old version of Adobe In-design.

Used copies aren't always easy to find because when a new version comes up, folks buy the "upgrade" version which requires that you still have the old version, and they may keep the old version in case they need to reinstall the new version again. And a "used" copy might be a pirated version that won't operate properly as you must go through a registration process with Adobe.

Thank you for your reply.

I don't need the same completeness as the commercial font.
I was hoping some private designers with time on their hands
might be able produce respectable knock-offs with quality
approaching or exceeding the commercial font.

We often see free software programs that are quite good. Not
everyone is motivated by money and glory. But if there are no
decent knock-offs, then there aren't.

Fonts should be sold for non-commercial use at a lower price
than when they are sold for commercial use.

I don't know why there is not a font package of basic fonts for
non-commercial use. I would pay $500-$1000 for such a package.

In the meantime, anyone can get any commercial font for free
by going downloading it from file-sharing pirate sites. This is
not something I know how to do because I am not into that. I
am close to paying a computer expert to do this for me.

I read many places that Constantia was a Microsoft commissioned
knock-off of Palantino. Which do people like more Palantino Linotype,
Book Antiqua, or Constantia?

Which of these fonts looks most impressive for a business letter:
Palantino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Constantia, Baskerville, Goudy
Old Style. I use Baskerville, but the difference between these fonts
is very hard to discern on my monitor. I am not sure that my printer
even prints them differently. Which would you prefer for legal
work?

At one point I thought of purchasing an old Adobe software product
just to get their fonts.

Thank you for your recommendation. I will purchase The Elements
of Typographic Style when I can afford it. At this point in time, I can't
spare one dollar. I don't have working refrigerator.

You say a good type can be had relatively cheaply now, but the last time
I checked a family of single font cost several thousand dollars. I would
really like to get Avenir Next, Mrs. Eaves by Licko, Myriad Pro,
Garamond, Futura and a few others.

I can't see how using these fonts in my personal letters would cost the
creators of these fonts, or their foundries one penny. I created
business presentations to try to get investors interested in partnering
with me.

If I owned a print shop, an advertising company, or a desktop publishing
company, and I had real income, I have no problem paying the going rate
for these fonts. If I created a font, I would have no problem with anyone
in my situation using it for free. I spent my life helping people in need or
distress for free. I made huge personal sacrifices to help humans and
animals in distress.

When I think how many people there are in the world, who would object
to the poor benefiting from something that would not cause them any loss,
I think to myself that I have been a fool, that sociopaths have a better
grasp of reality than I have. I always thought mankind would advance
when humans helped each other reach their full potential. But successful
people overwhelming seem to believe the world is a zero-sum game,
that they lose anytime anyone else gets ahead.

Every time I read news about some "senseless" killing, and I recall how
successful humans are by and in large so petty, selfish, self-centered,
narcissistic, and greedy, I think to myself there is no such thing as
senseless murders. Senseless murderers are no different than most
successful human beings. Both sets are comprised of humans who
just care about their own welfare, and their own selfish needs.

Why should impoverished humans give a whit about others, when
others do not give a whit about them. The social contract is built
on the principle of "reciprocity." I care about you, society cares
about you, therefore you should respect our laws.

When a society does not give a whit about its poor, its needy, and
its hungry. When people who are successful can't stand anyone else
gaining, even when it costs them nothing, there is no social contract.

What does this have to do with fonts and typography? Apparently,
much more than meets the eye. The "haves," people with land, oil,
money, power, fonts want to keep their club exclusive. They want
to preserve their privilege, they do not wish to share with others,
even if it would cost them nothing to do so.

On the other hand, I have always believed in sharing everything
with everyone. I have always been willing to share my knowledge,
share my talents, share my possessions with anyone and everyone.

Not everyone in the world is motivated by money and glory. Some
people actually live their life to benefit the world and help others.
I don't think most people can imagine what kind of world we would
live in today if there had been fewer self-sacrificing humans in our
past, and more humans who just care about their own bottom line.

All the good we have in our world today is here because of people
like Tesla and Westinghouse, not people like Edison and JP Morgan.

>the last time I checked a family of single font
> cost several thousand dollars.

Very few fonts cost that much. Go to MyFonts.com and check out the prices.

You also might check out MightyDeals.com. At their site click "All Deals" and on the next page click "Fonts". The font selection changes as offers are for a limited time. I've purchased several font families from them.

There is a difference between being motivated in making the biggest amount of money and in making a decent living for yourself. I don't think typedesign is a business where people become millionaires (unless they focus solely on the business side of things, instead on the creative side.)

You wish to have designers to make decent looking versions of classic fonts, well then you just need to have a look at MyFonts. All popular fonts, like Helvetica, Proxima, Gotham, Meta etc. inspire a lot of type designers in creating their version of this particular style. Some are better than others, some stay close to the original, some are more adventurous. These are not ripoffs most of the time, but often they do cost considerably less than the classics. Just check out the MyFonts special offers: many newly offered font families are offered at steep discounts ranging from 50 to 90 %, so you might snap up a family for 20 dollars or something.

Thank you very, very much for the tip.

I am not a typographer, and do not have the ability to judge subtle differences between fonts. Obviously, I can tell the difference between "Comic" and "Times Roman." But I really have a hard time telling the difference between Palantino, Book Antiqua, and Constantia.

I have zero training in this field. I am not a graphic designer or a typographer. I have zero ability to judge fonts that are similar to each other. I can't judge spacing, character width, or any of the variations that differentiate one serif font from another serif font.

I might plunk down $20 on a font, then after much use discover something about it I don't like. Then buy another font for $20 with the same result. I can see myself two years from now having spent thousands of dollars on hundreds of fonts, and not having one I am happy with. I fear buying any font that is not a famous commercial font because it might have some fatal flaw. Moreover, there are several hundred thousand cheap fonts and free fonts, I would not know where to start. The prospect of my having to select ten fonts from all those fonts is daunting and overwhelming.

If I had more experience with fonts. If fonts were a more central part of my life, I might feel more comfortable picking a cheap font or a free font. In areas where I have expertise, I can spot things that others would not notice after days of examination. Typography is your field of expertise not mine. Simply put, I am not qualified, nor do I have the competency or expertise to determine the suitability of cheap fonts or free fonts. The whole point here is I am trying to produce material with a professional look. I can't rely on my expertise to make decent selections.

With successful commercial fonts, I know I can't go wrong with any of them. And there are a few of them I have seen so often, I know I like them. I am open to recommendations.

Why don't the typographers here come up with a list of 50 low cost fonts they would recommend to budding graphic designers. Of course, I am not even a budding graphic designer. But it would certainly be a huge help to the public if all the participants here rated a hundred affordable fonts, then pared the list down to 50, 25, or even 10.

I would appreciate all the time and effort you put into such an endeavor. You could even profit from it. People would pay you to come up with a list of 100, 50, 25, and 10 top affordable/free fonts.

michael

> I am not a graphic designer...
> I can see myself two years from now having spent
> thousands of dollars on hundreds of fonts...

Michael you don't need to spend thousands on fonts. Since you're not a trained designer most of your work will be resumes, flyers, and other simple projects, and all you need for those are a few basic fonts. The fonts you already have are probably sufficient.

If you occasionally need an unusual font (for a Halloween flyer, for example) there are plenty of free fonts out there. They aren't the best quality but they'll be fine for something like that.

Your focus should be on developing your skills. Building a font collection can come later.

@cyberflor: If I read your heading correctly, you are close to claiming that Typophile held you at gunpoint and made you follow six-year-old advice to your detriment. Should I feel vexed enough to fail to mention that old CorelDraw and Corel WP Office CDs tend to hold sets of (usually Bitstream) fonts?

What James has said above is great advice - use what you have well and you can make a few choices latter - more equipment does not make for great photography - learning to look and use what you have does.

Hi again Cyberflor, a very quick Googling for "best free fonts" found several articles with things looking an awful lot better than their equivalents a decade ago, which was the last time I made that search. Fanwood, a revival/knockoff of Rudolph Ruzicka's Fairfield by Barry Schwartz, looks especially promising, with separate text and display fonts. http://www.fontsquirrel.com seems a useful website for more stuff. More importantly, you need to train your eye and learn how to use type. Send me a private message with your postal address and I'll buy you a copy of the book I recommended.