now? to scan?

by the way, there's a tv show, "she wrote murder" or she....something. i don't know.....and the titles - with this typeface....



David Hamuel

The "Murder She Wrote" font is here:

http://simplythebest.net/fonts/TVshow_fonts.html

it's called Lansbury.

I don't think this sample came from a digital font per se,
but maybe a stamp or some type of handpress, with
letters based on some of the typefaces David mentioned.

That might account for why some of the letters are a bit different,
in shape and tone, as Stephen pointed out.

bj

and here's the image from the TV show.

double

It smells like an early 20th century British metal face.
(And font can have alternate letters, you know.)

hhp

here

Thanks bj. I started my day - 5am......so more samples......not now. pleaseeee




David Hamuel

URW's version of Art Gothic contains several alternate characters that better match your sample Jared.

Precision Type has a version. Versions/clones from defunct foundries are out there as well.

Art Gothic appears in the Victorian section of the Solotype Catalog.

Stephen, I'm sure that you are correct, but I'm left wondering about a few things then:

1. Did metal type not contain alternate characters in a set? I know nothing about this, but noted that just the small sampling of Art Gothic in the Solotype Catalog contains two very different 'e's.

2. Could printing methods account for some of those variations, especially varying stroke weights?

3. When we see old type samplings (like Jared's apparently) that seem to mimic very old tyepfaces .... I don't know ... I guess this isn't a question. I'm just trying to picture what actually was being done. A lettering artist sitting and copying a printed sample next to him/her? With those handwritten variations we note � some clearly intentional. I suppose this makes sense if it was the case

A few minutes distraction from composing my prior post and my questions have partially been answered in the interim.

Ya gotta be quick here.

Metal type totally has alternate forms. In fact Gutenberg himself relied on alternate forms very heavily.

hhp

Thank you for the info guys.

Don't forget film type, Mike. Metal isn't the only other printing method for type. I think most of the stuff in the Solotype Catalog is film type, because of the manipulations that were shown in the back of the book. Many of those tricks are done using film. Between the late '50's(?) and early '90's I think film type was used for a great deal of display and general typesetting, until digital type began to become widespread.

Metal, dry transfer, computer � those are the methods I was aware of.

Film? Does anyone know of any online resources for learning about this method (and perhaps the how-to of dry transfer while I'm at it)?

Here is one link to a bit about Photolettering, another name for film type (as well as the name of a company that was one of the leaders in producing the typefaces): http://www.tpub.com/content/draftsman/14263/css/14263_273.htm

online resources - no. but info, history etc., - yes.


call it Phototypesetting or Photocomposition (and erroneously - "cold type")





David Hamuel

Thanks for the link Mike. I found precious little online using any of yours or David's pertinent terms in Google (even adding 'typography' to thin out false unwanted hits).

I did learn some, though. I gather that individual letters of a typeface still had to be physically placed in a machine � unless I misunderstood). I'll have to hit the libraries. I've gotten this thread off-topic � and, indeed, off of the Forum Topic itself.

I will, lastly, mention this conversation (January, Hrant takes part), which debates the relative merits, aesthetics, etc. of the various printing types. I especially appreciated Gerald Lange's closing two paragraphs.

Mike said:"I did learn some, though. I gather that individual letters of a typeface still had to be physically placed in a machine � unless I misunderstood)."

It sounds to me that perhaps you do misunderstand the photolettering technique. I knew someone who had a filmsetting machine and the only type he used was on a photographically -produced optical disc. There was no actual, physical type, just a round glass plate with letters on it (I think the plate was black and the letters were clear, but I am not sure if I recall this properly). Your typing rotated the disc to select the character image and then 'printed' it photographically on another strip of film, I think. This could further be tweaked and kerned to produce a final piece of film or photographic plate that was used to print the copy, or more usually headlines. I admit some of this explanation involves a bit of shaky memory, and an attempt to guess at the whole process, since I only saw a brief demonstration of this expensive piece of equipment when my friend first began his own printshop. This was well over 10 years ago, so may have been an investment that he regretted a few years later when digital equipment became much more common. I think photolettering is still used in limited applications, especially for personal stationery and wedding invitations, etc.

I looked at the conversation you linked, which was principally about the use of letterpress, and saw only one or two references to the use of film, but the point about the clarity of the character images (and presumably the typography) being more important than the printing methodology is certainly unassailable.

Aha. Thanks for that clarification Mike.

In the little info I found online, I clearly had made some false assumptions and linked bits of info incorrectly.

Your explanation of photolettering makes some of the comments in the Solotype Catalog, especially about tweaking jobs optically, make more sense now.

Again, I'm going to see what the library has to offer. Images of equipment and technique would be informative and fun for me to see.

Mike,

look for:

* Herman Freud - Intertype Fotosetter, a first-generation phototypesetting system ( 1946).

* Louis Moyroud , Rene Higonnet - second-generation phototypesetting system (1949)


The basic idea/principle:

1. spinning disc + negative images of the typeface (to wit - letter is white. disc - black)

2. lens turret - for the type size.

3. prism - establishes type position (the letters can be condensed, extended etc. etc etc.)

4. paper or film






David Hamuel

Thanks David.

I've written the titles down (decided to use the hand printing system).